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9 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

Is that the same science that said it was ok for hollywood to continue life as normal, and still have there catered lunches, but tell the restaurant next door to close. The same science that said if you gather at restaurants and have a party your going to kill people, only to find out that's exactly what they were doing. The same science that said if you drive from Kalamazoo,Mi to your second home in the U.P. you were going continue the spread, but said it was ok for a trucker to take a load of bicycles there for Walmart. The same science that said if we don't shut down we'll all die, but MILLIONS of truckers, truck stop employees, Walmart, Amazon, Target employees, local gas station employees, all the shippers/recievers, could stay open. Why hasn't there been a massive uncontrollable outbreak of truckers getting this, or the truck stop employees? There should be if you "follow the science"

First, no one said we'll all die - you're speaking in hyperbole that isn't grounded in reality. Secondly, one cannot fault the advocates of solid policy (based on science and statistics) for the responses of those who do not comply, nor do those who are noncompliant disprove the accuracy of the statics nor the prudence of the policies. Thirdly, there were subsects of the public whose jobs were determined to be essential for society to function and were in compliance with precautions.  That's common sense.  Both of your arguments are sweeping statements that hold no validity. 

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18 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

Is that the same science that said it was ok for hollywood to continue life as normal, and still have there catered lunches, but tell the restaurant next door to close. The same science that said if you gather at restaurants and have a party your going to kill people, only to find out that's exactly what they were doing. The same science that said if you drive from Kalamazoo,Mi to your second home in the U.P. you were going continue the spread, but said it was ok for a trucker to take a load of bicycles there for Walmart. The same science that said if we don't shut down we'll all die, but MILLIONS of truckers, truck stop employees, Walmart, Amazon, Target employees, local gas station employees, all the shippers/recievers, could stay open. Why hasn't there been a massive uncontrollable outbreak of truckers getting this, or the truck stop employees? There should be if you "follow the science"

Science is NOT static!!!!!! It’s based on data we have and how we analyze it. Thus, many things change over time.  We are more than allowed to say one thing then update it to something different in the future based on additional data. Also understand science has and will never tell you policy. It can definitely recommend something highly. 

Other side of the coin is how much we as a society and we as individuals are willing to risk. There in lies the who can stay open (other than essentials).

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33 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

Is that the same science that said it was ok for hollywood to continue life as normal, and still have there catered lunches, but tell the restaurant next door to close. The same science that said if you gather at restaurants and have a party your going to kill people, only to find out that's exactly what they were doing. The same science that said if you drive from Kalamazoo,Mi to your second home in the U.P. you were going continue the spread, but said it was ok for a trucker to take a load of bicycles there for Walmart. The same science that said if we don't shut down we'll all die, but MILLIONS of truckers, truck stop employees, Walmart, Amazon, Target employees, local gas station employees, all the shippers/recievers, could stay open. Why hasn't there been a massive uncontrollable outbreak of truckers getting this, or the truck stop employees? There should be if you "follow the science"

A great deal of this seems to be based on political decisions, rather than specifically on the science.  For better or worse, politicians made choices based on a number of factors, including their understanding of the science, the actual needs of their citizens, and the perceived desires of their citizens.  Those in charge also had to draw lines, some things are allowed, others are not, and in many cases those lines deserve criticism. 

A great deal of this is also stated in absolute terms, when science has, since Day 1, consistently talked about increasing  or decreasing risks, never about absolutes.  Masks don't prevent disease transmission, but consistent use decreases the risk of transmission.  Distancing reduces risk, but doesn't eliminate it.  Vaccines don't completely remove risk, but they lower it.  

I do resent the "sheep" comment earlier, it was out of line and impolite.  All of us take in information, from any number of sources, and then make decisions.  You certainly have your basis for opposing vaccines, for opposing masks, for believing as you do.  You're following the advice of certain people, but that doesn't make you a sheep.  I've made a different evaluation, following the course recommended by different people, but that doesn't make ME a sheep either.  We can disagree, but on this forum we should always disagree with respect.

 

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23 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I do resent the "sheep" comment earlier, it was out of line and impolite.  All of us take in information, from any number of sources, and then make decisions.  You certainly have your basis for opposing vaccines, for opposing masks, for believing as you do.  You're following the advice of certain people, but that doesn't make you a sheep.  I've made a different evaluation, following the course recommended by different people, but that doesn't make ME a sheep either.  We can disagree, but on this forum we should always disagree with respect.

+1M!

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15 hours ago, Frank F said:

What about those who have already had COVID and have the anti-bodies? An immunization is to make a person immune. Why would they be required to get a an immunization against COVID and then carry papers with them to prove it?

Link below is not a definitive source but does offer information that the antibodies from having the vaccine are not necessarily as "Strong" (my wording here) as from a full vaccination.  It offers the concept that having COVID produces antibodies similar to a 1st shot of either Pfizer of Moderna vaccines and getting at least one shot offers additional protection.

3675c98c-04aa-4cf3-a82f-7fa2edb778aa-AP_

Data seems to be indicating that survivors of COVID-19 may not need two doses of mRNA vaccine, which would free up more doses for others.
15 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

As I understand it, people have gotten COVID a second time.  Being vaccinated will increase their level of immunity.

Yes, see above

14 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Everybody has different immune responses to the virus. Generally those who got quite ill will have generated a stronger response and thus have antibodies that are more likely quite durable to the novel virus. However some only have a minor illness or asymptomatic thus their immune systems don’t generate ‘reliable’ antibodies. Their antibodies may only be present for a couple of weeks. If we went by antibody testing we couldn’t determine how effective the antibodies are.

The vaccines are biochemically engineered to give people the proper ‘dose’ of virus protein to ensure effective antibodies are generated.

Yes, see above

15 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I'm not necessarily pro-vaccine passport, but I don't buy into the idea that requiring a COVID-19 vaccination for certain activities is a slippery slope that will lead to some sort of dystopian/authoritarian future. I have to provide proof of vaccination for my kids to enroll in school, I don't see how that is any different than providing proof of vaccination for international travel (or other activities).

I am also on the fence about the "Vaccine Passport" but at the same time we already have requirements on other things so this is not an entirely new concept due to COVID.

 

12 hours ago, phillyk said:

Just got back from sitting inside at Lorenzo’s and had a big margarita. They have things spaced out a lot. 
 

It’s a no from me on having vaccination requirements to go places. While I think everyone should get it, who can, it should still be a choice. 

It is a choice, but a person's choice has consequences for others.  A person can choose to endanger themselves but does not have the right to endanger others.  If a person chooses not to be vaccinated then that is their choice, but they need to live with their consequences.  I am choosing to get the vaccine and I understand that means I accept there may be currently unknown health implications.  For me, people I personally know and whose expertise I trust tell me the potential impact of COVID is worse than the potential impact of the Vaccine I am accepting that.  If another chooses differently I agree it is their choice but they need to live with the consequences of that choice which may include limiting their ability to do some things.

9 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

I've been reading this off and on for a while and just shaking my head. While all you 🐑 have been wearing your masks, staying home, preaching about "the science," taking shots of a poisonous vaccine, patting each other on the back for how obedient you've been, trying to one up each other on who got there shot first. I never stayed home. I've been to truck stops all over the country for fueling, showers, eating inside restaurants, eating salads prepared by the truck stop, filling my coffee mugs, getting maintenance work done, to shippers, receivers, dot inspection stations, rest areas, casino's, etc. etc. the list go's on. No mask, no nothing. Grow a pair and think for yourselves.

"Poisonous Vaccine"?  I have not seen any evidence of any person experiencing more than some short-term side effects however I know people that have suffered loss of loved ones from COVID and a friends son, @ age 32 and healthy, is 3 months past his catching COVID and he still has no sense of taste.  What other long-term effects will one day be known?  I'm glad that for many the impact is minor but it is not for anyone to assume it will be minor for others.  Please offer facts on what makes you believe this a "Poisonous Vaccine".

As for "Essential Workers" being a trucker you & those you interacted with should have been following mask requirements and other basic precautions to protect both yourself and those you interact with.  To say you survived without following precautions with only minor inconvenience is nothing more than saying you were lucky.

I am thinking for myself, I have spoken to people I personally know in the medical field and have made my choices based on what they say.  I am also considering the needs of others.  I, as many on here, want the restrictions to end and that is one reason I advocate for getting the vaccine, because the faster more get vaccinated the faster we can relax the restrictions.

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39 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 

I do resent the "sheep" comment earlier, it was out of line and impolite.  All of us take in information, from any number of sources, and then make decisions.  You certainly have your basis for opposing vaccines, for opposing masks, for believing as you do.  You're following the advice of certain people, but that doesn't make you a sheep.  I've made a different evaluation, following the course recommended by different people, but that doesn't make ME a sheep either.  We can disagree, but on this forum we should always disagree with respect.

I don’t. I’ll gladly follow the advice of a Ph’D who has been working in virology for 20+yrs.  @TRUCKERI bet I know more about trucks than you because I drive a stick and have google, despite your experience... see how ridiculous that sounds?!
 

Seriously, does one’s profession really mean so little these days?

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On 3/29/2021 at 9:36 PM, dennyjones said:

Michigan 7 day average is 4,605!

I has one dose of Pfizer 20 days before my wife came down with covid. I tested negative, and have since then received my second dose.  One son had both doses when vaccine became available. He  is fine. Other son is is positive. He seems to be on the road to recovery. Wife's fever may have broken overnight.

At least for me, one dose saved me. Maybe they should give everyone their first dose (deemed 75-80% effective) before giving out second doses for a 10-20% gain.

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26 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I don’t. I’ll gladly follow the advice of a Ph’D who has been working in virology for 20+yrs.  @TRUCKERI bet I know more about trucks than you because I drive a stick and have google, despite your experience... see how ridiculous that sounds?!
 

Seriously, does one’s profession really mean so little these days?

hahahahahahaha - awesome 😆 Dead accurate

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10 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

I've been reading this off and on for a while and just shaking my head. While all you 🐑 have been wearing your masks, staying home, preaching about "the science," taking shots of a poisonous vaccine, patting each other on the back for how obedient you've been, trying to one up each other on who got there shot first. I never stayed home. I've been to truck stops all over the country for fueling, showers, eating inside restaurants, eating salads prepared by the truck stop, filling my coffee mugs, getting maintenance work done, to shippers, receivers, dot inspection stations, rest areas, casino's, etc. etc. the list go's on. No mask, no nothing. Grow a pair and think for yourselves.

Interesting take. 
First off: You call me a sheep again and there will be problems. If you want to call me a sheep, please do so to my face. And when doing so you better be damned good and ready to answer politely when I ask you explain why you think so. 

Second off: If you are looking for somebody to support you on keeping the economy rolling, I'm your guy. I drive around the state and talk to people for a living. I haven't quit working and I don't expect to. I don't want anyone to stop working and I want the economy to be able to move along. 

I agree with you. We should keep working. We should keep supporting our businesses. I also drink plenty of truck-stop coffee. Having said that 1/2 Million Americans have died. That's scary for a lot of people. ... So ... Why not wear a mask?

I wear a mask because it allows me to do my job. Every business I visit without exception, expects and demands that I wear a mask. It's a very small price to pay to make people comfortable around you, and to keep doing my job.

When I go to a public place I wear a mask. WHY? NOT BECAUSE I'M A f***ING SHEEP!! but because it makes people comfortable around me. People are scared. Many have died, many more have truly suffered. My next door neighbor, was 67, he died Friday. I went over to express my condolences to his wife... widow. Everyone in her house was wearing a mask. Should I have gone over and NOT worn mine. Should I have told them they are all sheep? Of course not. 

People are afraid, worried or at best uncertain. Wearing a mask makes them less afraid. Wearing a mask is just not that big of a deal. I have several that are perfectly comfortable. I truly believe it helps. If you don't, that's fine. Wear one anyway. Otherwise you are just being rude to people who are legitimately at risk or are afraid for themselves or their loved ones. 

I appreciate the freedoms we have here in the US. I appreciate your it's your right not to have to wear a mask stance. I do. I really really do. But wear one anyway. Don't be that guy. What if you one day found out you didn't wear a mask and then it turns out you killed a dozen people by passing it on to them? The scary thing about this virus is many people get it and never ever know it.

Again, I don't know if masks work or don't work. I don't know shit about this f-ing virus. I do know that a lot of people have been very sick and I do know a lot of people have died, including my next door neighbor. I also know if I wear my mask people are more comfortable around me. So, why not wear a mask? 

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11 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Remember, it was "science" and the science of engineering that gave you a truck and makes it run.  And puts money in your pocket.  Don't be so quick to discount it.

So TRUCKER, no response to this?  Are you one of those folks who pick and choose your science?  If it fits your lifestyle?  Your mindset?

I'm assuming you're a golfer since you're on this forum.  Do you apply any science to your golf swing?  Or do you just rear back and wallop that ball (which was designed by science, BTW)?

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2 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

Is that the same science that said it was ok for hollywood to continue life as normal, and still have there catered lunches, but tell the restaurant next door to close. The same science that said if you gather at restaurants and have a party your going to kill people, only to find out that's exactly what they were doing. The same science that said if you drive from Kalamazoo,Mi to your second home in the U.P. you were going continue the spread, but said it was ok for a trucker to take a load of bicycles there for Walmart. The same science that said if we don't shut down we'll all die, but MILLIONS of truckers, truck stop employees, Walmart, Amazon, Target employees, local gas station employees, all the shippers/recievers, could stay open. Why hasn't there been a massive uncontrollable outbreak of truckers getting this, or the truck stop employees? There should be if you "follow the science"

Literally nothing you say in this post is related to science, or the guidance provided by scientific data.

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This is probably why I don't discuss the game of Golf on all those Covid 19 forums 😮

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1 minute ago, Frank F said:

This is probably why I don't discuss the game of Golf on all those Covid 19 forums 😮

😄

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33 minutes ago, Frank F said:

This is probably why I don't discuss the game of Golf on all those Covid 19 forums 😮

This is why we stopped allowing politics and religion topics too.

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3 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

Is that the same science that said it was ok for hollywood to continue life as normal, and still have there catered lunches, but tell the restaurant next door to close. The same science that said if you gather at restaurants and have a party your going to kill people, only to find out that's exactly what they were doing. The same science that said if you drive from Kalamazoo,Mi to your second home in the U.P. you were going continue the spread, but said it was ok for a trucker to take a load of bicycles there for Walmart. The same science that said if we don't shut down we'll all die, but MILLIONS of truckers, truck stop employees, Walmart, Amazon, Target employees, local gas station employees, all the shippers/recievers, could stay open. Why hasn't there been a massive uncontrollable outbreak of truckers getting this, or the truck stop employees? There should be if you "follow the science"

Add “statistics” to the list of things about which @TRUCKER seemingly knows nothing.

?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brig

Riverside County truck driver Tommy Macias died of COVID-19 after attending a barbecue. His final message was a warning filled with regret.

First search result I found.

The headline: “Truck driver posts regrets about party a day before dying of coronavirus.”

And this was a trucker who distanced, wore a mask, etc. He got COVID at a BBQ. And died.

I bet he wishes he had gotten the “poisonous vaccine.”

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21 minutes ago, iacas said:

Add “statistics” to the list of things about which @TRUCKER seemingly knows nothing.

?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brig

Riverside County truck driver Tommy Macias died of COVID-19 after attending a barbecue. His final message was a warning filled with regret.

First search result I found.

The headline: “Truck driver posts regrets about party a day before dying of coronavirus.”

And this was a trucker who distanced, wore a mask, etc. He got COVID at a BBQ. And died.

I bet he wishes he had gotten the “poisonous vaccine.”

now hold on there @iacas, you've gone too far...we don't discuss facts and things around here...just hyperbolic statements of our "well-informed,"
"well-educated" opinions.

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36 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

This is why we stopped allowing politics and religion topics too.

Not surprising at all considering neither have a place on a Golf forum. I see this thread probably headed in that same direction pretty soon. It's kinda played out really. 

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4 minutes ago, Frank F said:

Not surprising at all considering neither have a place on a Golf forum. I see this thread probably headed in that same direction pretty soon. It's kinda played out really. 

It was set up for information sharing so we could discuss what was going on in our areas. Some like to delve into unsubstantiated opinions, but for the most part, it has been a good thread.

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