WTF? Baseball's Unwritten Rules?

[iacas]

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

The only problem I have with it is Tatis missed the sign to take the pitch. That should not happen.

Sure. Fine. He shouldn't have missed the sign.

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

The grand slam was a no no

Hard disagree there, outside the context of missing the sign.

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

but I am sure the pitcher threw one down the middle ASSUMING Tatis would not swing.

Why? That's a pretty bad assumption to make.

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

This is like stealing second base when you are ahead by ten runs in the ninth inning. Just rubbing it in. In the "old" days the next batter up would get hit by the first pitch thrown. All evened up then move on. 

Meh, play better. I think these unwritten rules are stupid.

And maybe the guy needed one more stolen base to get to 50 or to earn a bonus or whatever. Don't want him to steal second? Throw him out. Hold him on better. Whatever.

[dennyjones]

This is not little league baseball.   These guys are suppose to be the best of the best.  I completely agree with @iacas, the "unwritten" rules are stupid in professional sports.  

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

This is not little league baseball.   These guys are suppose to be the best of the best.  I completely agree with @iacas, the "unwritten" rules are stupid in professional sports.  

Yeah, Little League often has mercy rules, but they aren't unwritten. MLB doesn't have a mercy rule. Beat them down.

This past weekend, should Dustin Johnson have stopped trying to make putts when he got up by six? Eight? Ten?

[bweiss711]

1 hour ago, shanksalot said:

The only problem I have with it is Tatis missed the sign to take the pitch. 

The problem is that he was given the sign to take the pitch in the first place.  That's the whole point.  It doesn't matter if he missed it or ignored it.  Why is the manager asking his players to do less than their best?  Its professional sports.  Everyone should be doing their best all the time.  That's what pro sports is.  The best in the world competing against each other. If it truly is a blow out situation, and teams aren't supposed to try anymore, then do what other team sports do.  Bench your stars, and let the backups in to try their best. 

[ChetlovesMer]

7 minutes ago, bweiss711 said:

The problem is that he was given the sign to take the pitch in the first place.  That's the whole point.  It doesn't matter if he missed it or ignored it.  Why is the manager asking his players to do less than their best?  Its professional sports.  Everyone should be doing their best all the time.  That's what pro sports is.  The best in the world competing against each other. If it truly is a blow out situation, and teams aren't supposed to try anymore, then do what other team sports do.  Bench your stars, and let the backups in to try their best. 

I gotta agree with you here. 

By the way, were both teams supposed to stop trying for the last two innings? Or only the team that's ahead? If they are both supposed to stop trying, why are they still playing? Call the game and go home. 

I really have trouble understanding why anyone would have a problem with what Tatis did. Even if he did "miss the sign" (although, I think that was just spin put on later.) But lets say he ignored the sign. I seem to remember an "Unwritten Rule" that you CAN blow off the managers/base coach's sign, but you'd dammed well better produce an even better outcome than the sign would have produced. If you swing on a "take" pitch for example you'd better get a hit, or a homerun. If you run through a stop sign, you'd better make it. I thought that was an "Unwritten Rule" too. 

So many unwritten rules ... it's confusing as hell. Oh, I have an idea lets bring in an "unwritten rules" official. We add another umpire to each game who's there to monitor the unwritten rules. If one of them is broken then that umpire applies an unwritten penalty. 🤪

[shanksalot]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Sure. Fine. He shouldn't have missed the sign.

Hard disagree there, outside the context of missing the sign.

Why? That's a pretty bad assumption to make.

Meh, play better. I think these unwritten rules are stupid.

And maybe the guy needed one more stolen base to get to 50 or to earn a bonus or whatever. Don't want him to steal second? Throw him out. Hold him on better. Whatever.

You have your opinion and I have mine. I have followed baseball for some 70 years and this is how the game has been played almost all the time. I guess I am still old school thinking it is not wise to pile on late in a game when you are way ahead. The game has always played to win, obviously, but not to show up an opposing team because it is a long season and you will be playing them again. Payback can be painful. As far as a player needing one more stolen base my answer to that is this is a team game as the saying goes there is no I in team. JMHO

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

So many unwritten rules ... it's confusing as hell. Oh, I have an idea lets bring in an "unwritten rules" official. We add another umpire to each game who's there to monitor the unwritten rules. If one of them is broken then that umpire applies an unwritten penalty. 🤪

Someone needs to write down these unwritten rules, make 'em into a little book, and players can carry them in their back pocket.

[ShaftFarmer]

10 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

The game has always played to win, obviously, but not to show up an opposing team because it is a long season and you will be playing them again. Payback can be painful.

I think that's even more reason to never let up. With the amount of games the opposing team will get their chance to "redeem" themselves or whatever. Also it's common for players to receive bonuses for reaching a specific stat in the season. What if someone misses their home run bonus by 1 because their manager didn't want to hurt the other team's feelings? Seems kinda childish

[mcanadiens]

Calling it an "unwritten rule" sounds a bit silly to me, but what we are really talking about is not running up the score. That goes across all sports to one degree or another.

It's taking a knee in the closing seconds of a football game instead of punching it in.

It's subbing in backups after the game is in hand.

It's taking off the full-court press or not shooting the three-pointer.

Maybe part of the problem with baseball is the sheer optics of a ball thrown at someone's head. The full contact sports allow for reprisals that look a lot more like how the game is played to begin with.

[klineka]

18 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

I have followed baseball for some 70 years and this is how the game has been played almost all the time. 

That's very poor logic. Every single sport changes and evolves over time, so unwritten rules should evolve too

Do you use a wooden driver when you play golf? After all, that is how the game has been played almost all the time.

26 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

Payback can be painful.

Oh you mean like how the Rangers scored 16 runs in the 8th and 9th innings in a game against the Orioles to win 30-3 when they were already up 14-3 after 7 innings? Consider this payback for the Rangers.

27 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

As far as a player needing one more stolen base my answer to that is this is a team game as the saying goes there is no I in team.

But there is an I in "contract extension" and "maximum contract". It's a team game yes, but the players get paid individually and the major determining factor in how much each player gets paid is what their individual stats are. It's not like every player on a team makes the same amount of money regardless of how you perform.

What you are saying is that you think someone who is performing their job at a really high level should purposefully lessen his performance to make other people feel better. That's absurd IMO.

[iacas]

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

You have your opinion and I have mine. I have followed baseball for some 70 years and this is how the game has been played almost all the time.

Those types of arguments carry no weight with me. It's high time that shit changes. It's that simple.

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

I guess I am still old school thinking it is not wise to pile on late in a game when you are way ahead.

We have very different definitions of "way ahead." They were up by seven.

In a Pirates game some time within the last decade or two, they were down by six or seven with two outs and two strikes and nobody on base. They won the game.

You play to win the game. You don't play to not embarrass your opponents.

So many older people say they hate the "everyone is a winner" thing, but then they turn around and support bullshit "unwritten rules" about how you should let up on an opponent.

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

The game has always played to win, obviously, but not to show up an opposing team because it is a long season and you will be playing them again.

Then let them exact their revenge later on, if they're capable of doing so.

45 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

As far as a player needing one more stolen base my answer to that is this is a team game as the saying goes there is no I in team. JMHO

That's a bunch of hogwash, too. Players are playing for their team AND themselves. You can do both.

[mclaren4life]

I bet the Falcons wish they kept their foot on the gas with the Patriots. Or if you want a same sport reference the Dodgers should have poured it a bit more on the Nats. You are either playing to win or trying not to lose. You don’t want to get beat by 10 runs then stop the game when the lead reaches 9. This really is a silly subject. I prolly don’t want to see a T-Ball game where a team gets beat by 12 runs but they are small children. Once you reach high school you are past that. In fact I hate the whole pulling the starters thing. That’s a bigger slap in the  face. A team saying we are so much better than you we are going to put in our players that never play just so you don’t look bad. I’d rather my sons teams get beat by 50 with starters than by 30 with bench players. 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, shanksalot said:

The game has always played to win, obviously, but not to show up an opposing team because it is a long season and you will be playing them again. Payback can be painful. 

How would there be any more "payback" for losing a game by 11 than for losing a game by 7? Either way, you lost the game. You played like shit. You think the guys can actually perform better because you hit a grand slam against them? "I was going to throw my 90 mph fastball, but then I remembered you hit that grandslam against me and so I through my 95 mph fastball." 

Baseball purists are freaking weird. They talk about the beauty and the grandeur of the game. Then in the same breath they say "This guy shouldn't be trying anymore even though there's still 2 innings left to play." What is that? There's still 22% of the game left to play. ONCE again, I ask the baseball purists ARE BOTH TEAMS SUPPOSED TO STOP TRYING OR JUST THE TEAM THAT'S WINNING? 

Because if everybody's supposed to stop trying, then GO HOME! 

BTW - If there were fans there would you refund 22% of their ticket price. "Hey fans, the players aren't going to be trying for the last 22% of this game so, here's $8.80 back from the $40 ticket you bought." 

9 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

I bet the Falcons wish they kept their foot on the gas with the Patriots. 

DING!

[mcanadiens]

24 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

Once you reach high school you are past that.

I've seen exceptions.

Ohio high school baseball at least used to use a run rule. I think it was 10 runs after the fifth inning would end the game.

One time I remember seeing a Massillon football game played with a running clock when the Tigers were destroying Youngstown Wilson. 

 

[Golfingdad]

Some of the unwritten rules about running up the score I'm ok with, such as stealing bases with an X run lead (not sure exactly what X is, though) or being a lot more conservative about going for extra bases on hits or passed balls but this one was new to me.

I have yet to see a single person outside of the Rangers manager and one person here having issue with what Tatis did, so it's pretty clear at this point either A) it was never really even an unwritten rule, just the Rangers managers incorrect interpretation of one, or B) everybody clearly realizes how stupid some of the old unwritten rules were and have since moved on.

Also, karma, lmao ... in case anybody doesn't follow the Padres or the Rangers closely, the Padres went on to hit grand slams in the next three games of that series leading to a 4 game sweep.  They also hit one during their weekend 3 game sweep of the Astros.  And while that was happening the Rangers were getting swept by the Mariners, lol.

Seriously though, to me it's pretty simple.  If the Rangers stopped trying to score runs, all they have to do is tell the umpire or other team and forfeit.  If not, then they need to STFU and play better if they don't want the other team to score runs.

Or just forget everything I said and focus on only this: I just did a quick search and counted at least 5 teams that scored 7 or more runs over the course of 2 innings in just the Fri-Sun weekend prior to that game.  Honestly, what else do you need besides that info to realize that idea that you should stop trying to score at that point is ludicrous?

[Golfingdad]

11 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I just did a quick search and counted at least 5 teams that scored 7 or more runs over the course of 2 innings in just the Fri-Sun weekend prior to that game.

And because I was at the mlb site anyway and curious I kept going.  Between last Tuesday 8/18 and today, at least one team every day has scored 7 or more runs over the course of 2 or fewer innings.  10 different teams have done it a total of 11 times (Philadelphia twice) and the best example is probably the Phillies-Blue Jays game from last Thursday where they both scored 7 runs in one inning in the same game.

Even if you're into unwritten rules and believe there is a point where the ahead team needs to stop trying to score, you have to at least acknowledge that that point can't possibly be 7.

[jamo]

Will only add a few things things:

• "Unwritten rules are a scam that players run on each other to trick their opponents into acting against their own self-interests."
• Unwritten rules are codified by the loser.
• Many/most unwritten rules are new. People love to say that baseball has been played this way forever when really it's been played this way since, like, 2005. 
• They're not always as universally held to as people think. A whole bunch of current and former players have come to Tatis' defense.
• People love to be outraged by people breaking unwritten rules. People also love to be outraged by people being outraged by people breaking unwritten rules. 

[Double Mocha Man]

I have an unwritten rule that if I miss 3 foot putt I get a do-over.  Not so for my opponents.  Which is an unwritten sub-paragraph/clause.