Should OB Not Be Stroke & Distance?

[CarlSpackler]

1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

that isn't always the case.   One of the private course near me has  adjacent fairways between 9 and 10 and there is OB between them.  

There are local rules where off of the course isn't S&D in my area also.

I’ve never seen a local rule where a ball in farmer Johnson’s field is still in play. Down here in SW Ohio, playing from someone’s yard can get you shot.
 

They probably put white stakes between 9 & 10 for safety reasons.  

[billchao]

1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

that isn't always the case.   One of the private course near me has  adjacent fairways between 9 and 10 and there is OB between them.

Internal OB is usually in place for safety reasons. I’m all for player safety, but I dislike internal OB.

1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

There are local rules where off of the course isn't S&D in my area also.

Technically, the boundary areas of a course have to be defined by the committee, so I think they could just not define the borders of the property if they wished to. But if it’s marked OB, it must be played under S&D or the local drop rule.

11 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I am actually curious why previously termed lateral hazards are called penalty areas when it is not mandatory penalty. 

You can play your ball out of any penalty area if you choose to.

[dennyjones]

I just looked at the scorecard.   I was mistaken about the residential OB.   There are no white stakes on the course, but they do note on the card that residential property is OB.

My bad... 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I just wonder why OB is suppose to be more penal than a water hazard. 

Because you've literally left the golf course.

1 hour ago, xrayvizhen said:

I voted NO.

I've always been incredulous about the rule where a ball that lands on the other side of white stakes is a 2 stroke penalty and a ball hit over yellow or red stakes or into the drink is a one stroke penalty. They're all equally crappy shots and should be penalized equally.

I reworded the question. Voting no "not" is a vote for "yes, it should be stroke and distance" under the previous wording of the poll.

You can change your answer if you want.

I voted "no" under the new wording of the question: stroke and distance is fine, as is the Local Rule in non-competitive situations for pace of play.

[jsgolfer]

2 hours ago, billchao said:

My understanding of this has always been because out of bounds is defined as off the course, it should be a more severe penalty.

Internal OB, now that’s a different discussion.

Spoiler

I do not like internal OB at all, OB is out of the bounds of the golf course.   If your ball is within the confines of the course, there should be no penalty, unless you’re in a hazard. I was a member of two separate courses, many moons ago, that had holes with internal OB, supposedly for safety and pace of play.  I think they put them up so that people would cut the corner, but you still had to hit it way over the trees to take advantage, which was limited to just a few golfers. Send if you didn’t make it, you went from decent chance at birdie, to lucky to make bogey.  They finally took it down to host a US Am qualifier at one and the other to hold a state tournament.  They left them down after, and I’ve played a few times since and didn’t notice anything different about the course.  It was still better to play the hole the correct way.  

I too voted no, although I’ve played some courses where all of the OB was changed to lateral hazards to speed up play and I didn’t find the course any easier.  

Edited March 25, 2021 by jsgolfer

[StuM]

After some internal debate I voted "NO" to keep Stroke & Distance as it is.  My main objection to S&D was POP but I agree hitting "Off Property" should be a more sever penalty then a hazard on the course which is intended to be part of the course.  I considered if the local rule option could be made the "New Standard" but after a little thought I can imagine some big hitters gambling on a shot and even though they would get 2 strokes under the local rule they may still get an advantageous position over a more conservative shot that they "Need" to land in bounds.  As said above, just keep the ball on the course where it belongs.

As for internal OB, whenever possible, I say Plant trees to take those lines out of play.

[coachjimsc]

I voted No. I think all penalty areas should be S&D.

Eliminate confusion and several pages of the rule book. 😄

[WillieT]

20 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

In some ways, this is a safety issue.  On one side of a fairway is a stream, and anyone near that stream is a golfer, someone who knows to be watching for stray shots, someone who has accepted a certain amount of risk.  On the opposite side are houses, children in the back yards playing, completely unaware of deadly missiles in the air.  Shouldn't GOLF (in all caps, the game as  a whole) find a way to highly discourage you form making the kind of mistake that puts the innocent folks in danger.  Off of the property IS a worse shot than ON the property, in my mind.

Just reading this thread and after sitting through a HazOp review for the new plant site that I am helping with, the SAFETY issue rings well with me.  When I started playing "regularly" about two years back (late bloomer - I'll be 62 this year), I would slice nicely into the adjacent yards.  I am reminded of several courses that have homes right on the fairway down the right side.  It would pain me to know that I could have hit someone with such an errant shot.  S&D penalty, it is only in play if we put it in play.  If I am having a super-slice day, then I need to adjust my game not make the game adjust to my swing fault that day.  I have paid the S&D penalty more than I care to acknowledge - but in the same respect I have used it to realize that is somewhere I need work on.  

[klineka]

20 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

I voted NO.

I've always been incredulous about the rule where a ball that lands on the other side of white stakes is a 2 stroke penalty and a ball hit over yellow or red stakes or into the drink is a one stroke penalty. They're all equally crappy shots and should be penalized equally.

Since you voted no but think OB and laterals should be treated equally, does that mean you think laterals should also be stroke and distance?

[darthweasel]

didn't vote and I play by whatever the rules are when and where I am playing, but something to consider and this potentially relates to pace of play and mostly applies to munis and places hackers of regrettable swings gather

When golfing with players who...how do I say this gently...suck horrifically, soul-suckingly bad, the distance and stroke can really add time.

 

Example: I was playing a glorified executive course that wound through a retirement community. One person in our group had a giant, wild baseball swing. He proceeded to bounce not one, not two, not three, not four, but FIVE consecutive tee shots off houses down the right side of the fairway that came to rest ob. The only way he finally got one in play was when he topped one about 90 yards down the middle. Had he not topped it, it would have been the same result. His swing repeatedly produced an uncontrolled slice and on this hole that inevitably was ob. 

When he finally got his topper in play I literally asked him why after the second one he didn't switch clubs and he said, "I love that club" and proceeded to quote the "definition of insanity" line.

For talented golfers, sure, stroke and distance. But for people who have no control over their clubs who will never practice or develop any improvement...but will "casually" golf 3-5 times a year...it wouldn't suck if they whacked one out of bounds, if instead of another attempt which is just as likely to follow the first into the tulips as to be playable, it would be great to tell them the rule is to move forward and drop from there. (Yes, I know the new 2 stroke local rule, if adopted by the course...A) not all courses know it, B0 casual golfers don't and C) the 2 stroke sounds like a lot to them because this just might, maybe, perhaps be the ball they hit well and is in the fairway so they might as well try it again from where they are...)

Note that this is really primarily about people I doubt would ever be on a forum like this or carry a cap, anything like that...but I have seen a lot of golfers like that out there.

 

As it is , the rule is the rule so I keep my mouth shut when paired with someone doing that...but it is hard. 

[Vinsk]

I used to think S&D was too harsh. But that’s because my reload has the same chances of going off the course as the first.🙄

[ChetlovesMer]

2 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

didn't vote and I play by whatever the rules are when and where I am playing, but something to consider and this potentially relates to pace of play and mostly applies to munis and places hackers of regrettable swings gather

When golfing with players who...how do I say this gently...suck horrifically, soul-suckingly bad, the distance and stroke can really add time.

 

Example: I was playing a glorified executive course that wound through a retirement community. One person in our group had a giant, wild baseball swing. He proceeded to bounce not one, not two, not three, not four, but FIVE consecutive tee shots off houses down the right side of the fairway that came to rest ob. The only way he finally got one in play was when he topped one about 90 yards down the middle. Had he not topped it, it would have been the same result. His swing repeatedly produced an uncontrolled slice and on this hole that inevitably was ob. 

When he finally got his topper in play I literally asked him why after the second one he didn't switch clubs and he said, "I love that club" and proceeded to quote the "definition of insanity" line.

For talented golfers, sure, stroke and distance. But for people who have no control over their clubs who will never practice or develop any improvement...but will "casually" golf 3-5 times a year...it wouldn't suck if they whacked one out of bounds, if instead of another attempt which is just as likely to follow the first into the tulips as to be playable, it would be great to tell them the rule is to move forward and drop from there. (Yes, I know the new 2 stroke local rule, if adopted by the course...A) not all courses know it, B0 casual golfers don't and C) the 2 stroke sounds like a lot to them because this just might, maybe, perhaps be the ball they hit well and is in the fairway so they might as well try it again from where they are...)

Note that this is really primarily about people I doubt would ever be on a forum like this or carry a cap, anything like that...but I have seen a lot of golfers like that out there.

 

As it is , the rule is the rule so I keep my mouth shut when paired with someone doing that...but it is hard. 

When they aren't looking steal all but their very last golf ball. 

[Billy Z]

22 hours ago, billchao said:

My understanding of this has always been because out of bounds is defined as off the course, it should be a more severe penalty.

Internal OB, now that’s a different discussion.

I have seen OB internally, and I have hit it there. It took a pretty bat shot to accomplish, though.

[TourSpoon]

The penalty for OB should be greater for hitting it off the golf course than keeping it on the course but into a hazard.  I have no problem with it, until I am hitting 3 off the tee as that is no fun.  I am not a big fan of internal OB. I have only seen it a handful of times separating sweeping doglegs where cutting a corner and missing would be driving a ball into the front of someone's skull. I 

[imsys0042]

I don’t think it should be changed from S&D, I don’t have any concerns about the rule.   What bothers me is how some courses mark things blatantly wrong.   Safety comes first, so internal OB for that reason isn’t really bad.   But here’s some of the ways courses have marked this.  Tell me it wouldn’t drive you nuts.

1.  Parallel fairways that are really tight so they have OB stakes between them so that people don’t get in the way hitting out of another fairway.

2.  My old place in western PA claimed that they had so much OB because they respected property lines, even if the property was far from any house and maintained.   That’s fine, but then don’t have several areas defined as OB on the property because you claim that it speeds up play.  One such place was a 90 degree dogleg and you could hit thru it into the woods.   They didn’t want people to spend more time looking so they could punch out,   So if you catch it too good…bam!  2 strokes.   Should be able to punch out and hit the green in three.

3.  This was a one off, but some course I played a long time ago had a green with a steep drop off behind it and they made it OB to discourage people from hurting themselves going down to try and hit it.   I sort of understand the reasoning, but how is that not a penalty area instead?