Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame

[Piz]

I'm aware of that @billchao.  It just struck me, reading one of your previous posts, that we don't think of a lifetime ban as meaning exactly that.  If one is sentenced to life in prison; it isn't implied that you have to be buried there.  By the same token; a lifetime ban ought to expire at the end of one's life.

[onthehunt526]

21 minutes ago, billchao said:

It's not really a lifetime ban as much as it is about being on the MLB permanently ineligible list. Only the commissioner of baseball has the power to reinstate anyone on the list.

Shoeless Joe has been on it for 98 years and counting.

Pete Rose voluntarily accepted being added to the list as part of his settlement. If he's not reinstated, the HoF won't be electing him after he dies.

Giamatti offered Pete a 5 year banishment. But Pete would have had admit openly he bet on baseball, and give names and dates and stuff.

He didn't want to. So he voluntarily added himself to the permanently ineligible list.

[billchao]

36 minutes ago, Piz said:

I'm aware of that @billchao.  It just struck me, reading one of your previous posts, that we don't think of a lifetime ban as meaning exactly that.  If one is sentenced to life in prison; it isn't implied that you have to be buried there.  By the same token; a lifetime ban ought to expire at the end of one's life.

I don't recall ever discussing the "lifetime" nature of his ban. To me, permanently ineligible means just that: forever.

Rose never received a "lifetime" ban AFAIK.

33 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Giamatti offered Pete a 5 year banishment. But Pete would have had admit openly he bet on baseball, and give names and dates and stuff.

He didn't want to. So he voluntarily added himself to the permanently ineligible list.

I can't speak to his motives for that, but IIRC, it's the continued deception and gambling habits that caused Rob Manfred to deny his reinstatement. 

[onthehunt526]

33 minutes ago, billchao said:

I can't speak to his motives for that, but IIRC, it's the continued deception and gambling habits that caused Rob Manfred to deny his reinstatement. 

I think Bart Giamatti, realized that Pete needed help with his gambling addiction, and wanted him to get help... Even though betting on baseball as a player, umpire, manager, etc., is punishable by being declared permanently ineligible. It is at the discretion of the commissioner of whether that player goes on that list. For two reasons, a permanent ineligible employee of baseball can apply for reinstatement annually. The commissioner does not have to lay down a lifetime ban, even if the CBA says he's supposed to.

For instance a third failed test for PEDs carries a permanent ineligibility clause. But is still at the discretion of the commissioner to enforce the ban.

I have some bitching to do about Roger Goddell. But that's another thread for another time.

 

[MuniGrit]

Pete deserves the HOF in my opinion. Now I don't think it would change a thing for him personally, I think he would still be trying to sell autographs on the Vegas strip.

[Buckeyebowman]

I agree. A player's HOF status should depend upon the numbeers they put up in their career. Pete's numbers are unassailable. Consideer some of the guys who are already in the HoF. Ty Cobb was an unabashed racist, and Babe Ruth was a womanizing drunk! His "bad season" of, 1924 or 25 I think it was, was because he was trying to clear up a serious case of the clap! His idea of a "vacation" was a couple of hookers, a case of booze and a hotel room! 

[onthehunt526]

43 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Pete deserves the HOF in my opinion. Now I don't think it would change a thing for him personally, I think he would still be trying to sell autographs on the Vegas strip.

4256 hits... Seriously... Jeter had a shot if he would have stayed healthy. Griffey, Jr probably could've gotten close if he stayed healthy. 

4,256 hits in 24 years. 3,215 singles, 3,562 games played, 14,053 at-bats, 15,890 plate appearances. Lifetime .303 hitter, only hit 160 HRs but he should be in the Hall Of Fame.

I think the only shot Pete has to get reinstated is to actually show Rob Manfred that he has truly changed... Absolutely the only chance he's got. He needs to go around the country and tell high school and college student-athletes the dangers of gambling. If he puts his mind to doing this. Manfred might consider reinstatement in about 3 years or so.

[The Hook Meister]

Yes he belongs there. 4,256 hits puts him in. Okay I will conceed to a big ole * by his name.

[1Moputt]

I'm gonna chime in here because I've always been interested in Petes     situation. IMHO, there is no question Pete Rose deserves to be, and should be, in the HOF. I don't care if baseball chooses to put a plaque by his name that states Pete Rose has stained his reputation by betting on baseball and that Pete broke the #1 rule in professional sports by gambling on his own sport. Acknowledge it, condemn him, criticize his actions? Hell, put it in flashing lights. I would understand. All this being said, I believe, and wouldn't have a problem with, their never letting him work "inside baseball" again (never coach again) because of his gambling. HOWEVER, this DOES NOT reflect his accomplishments as a hitter and you can not ignore what he did as a player. We are not talking about election into the Hall of Great People, or in the Hall of Honest Players, or Hall of Rules Followers. Was he or wasn't he one of the greatest hitters of all times? If yes then put him in. FULL DISCLOSURE, I am 65 yrs old and through the years my wife and I have attended 100's of MLB games. We're longtime Astro fans and through the years have been lucky enough to see some outstanding ball players and HOF'ers. Over the years there have been "teams" that we would always make sure we saw when they were in town but I can honestly say there are just a handful of players over the years that I bought a ticket with the sole propose of seeing that player. I never missed an opportunity to watch Pete Rose play baseball. Pete "willed" his teams to win. I've never seen another player like him. Put him in!