I am so frustrated and want to quit golf

[Hiway1tele]

On 12/4/2013 at 4:43 PM, carefreechris said:

Honestly bro, it's all about the way you learn.  Far too many golfers and far too many instructors just throw a bucket down on the grass and tell the student to start hitting balls.  They're selling themselves as good instructors, so they dig in and start looking for swing positions that are out of place, or movement directions that are in the wrong direction.  After a few swings they tell you with confidence what you are doing wrong, and then proceed to show you the correction.  And this visual demonstration of the correction alone, in their brilliant worlds of 'teaching' golf, you are supposed to practice....maybe they give you a couple of drills for that move...then off you go, after you pony up the $50-100 for the lesson.. months later and maybe half a dozen more wallet cleaning lessons later, you see very little improvement.  Their words of wisdom are "hang in there, it will get better, it can take years depending on how much time you have".  This is the best that most instructors can do for a student...To think, that's almost all of them LOL.

 

I cant agree with you more...and because of it I have quit and walked away from the game...2 years of lessons, and significant money later, and hundreds of hours practice, to no avail...same lousy swing, same inconsistant shots, same lousy score...

[Hacker James]

On 12/4/2013 at 2:43 PM, carefreechris said:

Honestly bro, it's all about the way you learn.  Far too many golfers and far too many instructors just throw a bucket down on the grass and tell the student to start hitting balls.  They're selling themselves as good instructors, so they dig in and start looking for swing positions that are out of place, or movement directions that are in the wrong direction.  After a few swings they tell you with confidence what you are doing wrong, and then proceed to show you the correction.  And this visual demonstration of the correction alone, in their brilliant worlds of 'teaching' golf, you are supposed to practice....maybe they give you a couple of drills for that move...then off you go, after you pony up the $50-100 for the lesson.. months later and maybe half a dozen more wallet cleaning lessons later, you see very little improvement.  Their words of wisdom are "hang in there, it will get better, it can take years depending on how much time you have".  This is the best that most instructors can do for a student...To think, that's almost all of them LOL.

 

Here's where most golf instructors completely fail a golfer in a lesson... One's best golf shots all manifest in your mind.  The entire swing process in it's entirety is a packet of orders and signals organized by your mind, then sent out to your body.  Thus there are 2 ways to learn and practice golf -- by watching and hitting balls with your muscles, or by learning the swing process, and swinging the club with your mind.  I've helped golfers improve their swing process without even picking up a golf club lol.  If you have an inconsistency in the results of a certain type of shot, it's almost always your mind's interpretation of what it 'thinks' is the best process, be it through hacking a few buckets, or be it the information you received from your lessons.

If something doesn't physically feel right during the swing, or chip, or pitch, or putting motion, it's really your brain doing the best it can to fill in the information gaps that arise from misconceptions.

 

It's at the very foundation of the problems with most instructors - they only instruct physical movements and motions, and have no idea how to explain 'why' in a way to get through to the golfer's brain function.  You're basically trying to fast-track for short term fixes and improvements when you take a lesson from most any instructor these days.  If you were studying for a college math test next week, and your teacher just flat-out gave you the answers to all of the questions prior to the exam, how well do you think your brain would process those answers if you don't give yourself the due time to work out 'how' and 'why' those answers are correct?  How long do you think you would hold onto those quick answers?

 

Point being, if you don't find a way to get through to yourself properly in the learning process, to mentally understand with certainty the physical movements and positions, then your brain will either bounce around in limbo pretending to understand & not hold onto the information, or will fill in the subtle misunderstood gaps with its own interpretation of how to perform the movements and how to get to the positions that you strive for. Do you have a point in your swing where it feels like you are blanking out, when you swear you kept your view point on or near the ball, but can't for the life of you remember seeing the ball leave your line of sight?  That's an example of an information gap.  Your brain doesn't truly grasp 'how' to make a certain move happen correctly, so it throws together a quick patch to solve the most basic instinct puzzle - make contact with the ball.  That quick patch of signals usually involves some fast twitch muscles in your torso, arms, or hands/wrists.  It doesn't 'feel' right, so the mind needs to come up with a quick solution to return the clubhead to the ball.

 

How many times have you taken a lesson, where the instructor uses the same terminology and words to describe certain processes in a golf swing?  Fine in it's own bag of bolts, but where they can cripple a student's golf foundation is when they don't stop to ask the goddam student what that means to them, how it makes them feel, or how they are interpreting it.  ie - one person's interpretation of 'down' outputs one way in their mind, but another person's mind might interpret that literally, and gap-fill this misconception by literally forcing a movement straight down, or dip something straight down.  ie 2 - when an instructor tells a student to reach for the flag, or push the back of your lead hand toward the target on the forward swing; after just telling them to swing on plane lol.  Have you ever tried to reach for the flag after impact?  lemme know how you make out with that, and how successful you are at maintaining your spine tilt and sound shoulder frame rotation LOL.  There are very few exceptional teachers that have an understanding of mental game and mental process, and have an arsenal of descriptions to share with the student depending on what 'way' the student needs to hear the information.  They all teach in the same exact way with the same words and phrases - whatever that instructor's way or technique may be...

 

The golf swing really starts between your ears... make it feel right up there by understanding the biophysics of the motion...  decode your mind's swing 'blueprint', everyone's is different, everyone processes information differently,,, then work on reconditioning your muscles with the right signal patches.

Bingo...Lots of fine instructors who are great with the physics, and numbers, and ability. The truly gifted ones are the ones who can convey that information to a wide variety of students in a number of ways dependent on the student's ability to grasp new ideas. I particularly like Martin Chuck, who knows the science, but has a very personable way of explanation which is easy to follow.  Those "AHA" moments are golden!

[70sSanO]

When it comes to instructors and students, I think it can be a combination of unrealistic goals on the part of both.

The instructor wants to develop the best, in their own mind, swing technique to someone who will never be able to master it.  At the same time the student has unrealistic goals for scoring and distance, but doesn't have the ability to develop the skills.

If a student will only have the ability to break 90, at best, the instructor has to work with what the student has and develop a consistent swing, even if it is not ideal and means losing yardage.  The student has to realize that with his/her skill set, this is what they can expect.

This should not be foreign to anyone, not everyone can be a classical guitarist or sing opera.  Maybe good karaoke is the most that can be expected.  Why should golf instruction be any different?  Tailor it to the student's ability to improve the student's game enough to enjoy it more.

And an  instructor has to use videos to demonstrate what is happening and then work on improving those areas.  Personally I wouldn't go to an instructor that wasn't using videos in their instruction and recording the progress of the student.

John

[wedgehammer40k]

Golf is hard.

Mentally it can destroy you.

I watched a guy put two balls out of bounds during a comp and man did he rage out like a beast. 

It sucks you in for a while, makes it feel easy. Just last week I was hitting long drives, chipping on the green and putting out comfortably.

A week is a long time in golf. I'm back to the same antics with the driver this week and it's not pretty.

When things go wrong I always go back to the basics, stance, alignment, grip - and I focus on correcting and/or checking one aspect of my swing - obviously the one that I intuitively think is causing issues with my timing and ball striking - I think stance is number one  issue for most high cap golfers this guy really hit the mark on what I was doing and is worth checking out if your having driver issues.

I personally don't get lessons (but only because of the $$$), I think there can be value in it but there is nothing you can't fix by getting feedback from peers, or recording yourself at a range. There are a lot of articles, videos etc that you can study to compare your swing and break down your swing mechanics.
 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by wedgehammer40k

[newtogolf]

5 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

When it comes to instructors and students, I think it can be a combination of unrealistic goals on the part of both.

The instructor wants to develop the best, in their own mind, swing technique to someone who will never be able to master it.  At the same time the student has unrealistic goals for scoring and distance, but doesn't have the ability to develop the skills.

If a student will only have the ability to break 90, at best, the instructor has to work with what the student has and develop a consistent swing, even if it is not ideal and means losing yardage.  The student has to realize that with his/her skill set, this is what they can expect.

This should not be foreign to anyone, not everyone can be a classical guitarist or sing opera.  Maybe good karaoke is the most that can be expected.  Why should golf instruction be any different?  Tailor it to the student's ability to improve the student's game enough to enjoy it more.

And an  instructor has to use videos to demonstrate what is happening and then work on improving those areas.  Personally I wouldn't go to an instructor that wasn't using videos in their instruction and recording the progress of the student.

John

Most golf instructors are not very good at their jobs and most golfers are not very good at communicating their goals.  Based on my experiences most golf instructors (excluding Evolvr and  TST instructors) want to teach you their swing.  It doesn't matter how old, how strong, how flexible or how athletic you are they want you to swing how they do or they think they do.  They aren't teaching you how to golf, they are teaching you how to golf like they do. 

I spent the first 3 years of my golf experience trying to swing like my instructors, I couldn't.  Telling me to watch them and do what they did didn't work, 1) I'm not 30 years old, injury free and flexible from a lifetime of golfing like they are, 2) I don't learn well just by mimicking others, if that was the case I'd just watch pro's swing their golf clubs and save the $100 per hour I'm paying for lessons.  

Their swing might be a technically correct swing, but it might not be appropriate for the student.  What I like about 5SK is that they don't care how you swing as long as your swing incorporates the 5 keys but after achieving 3 keys you should be functional on the golf course.    

Learning to swing a golf club properly is only half the battle though, you have to learn how to perform that swing under pressure and duress and that's the second area where golfers get frustrated.

Tigers swing looks different on the range compared to the course and I think it's true for many mid - high handicappers as well.  At the range I can usually hit every club very well, perfect lies on the mat, no pressure to score, no strangers or golf buddies watching, plus no trees or hazards to worry about all contribute to being relaxed and comfortable which are critical to a good golf swing.  

Out on the course, the lies aren't perfect, hazards and problem areas line the course and your buddies are just wanting for you to slice your drive or shank one off an iron so they can give you crap.  We naturally get tense, grip gets a little tighter, which causes muscles in our forearms to get tighter, and that tenseness travels through the rest of our body until we're like stiff robots, you can't make a good swing like that, so of course we slice or shank one.  

There's nothing really more difficult about a 150 yard par 3 hole over water versus a 150 yard par 3 not over water.  In both cases we want to carry the ball at least 140 yards and land on the green.  For some reason, when there is water between the golfer and our landing area we tense up which almost assures us that shiny new ball is going in the water.  Even the pro's put balls in the water, I watched Daly empty his bag into a water hazard.  

If the pro's succumb to the pressures of the golf course and desire to perform at their very best it just says one thing, golf is hard.  

[nevets88]

Once you find smart and effective instructors, take lessons from and/or watch their videos and lessons of other people, become smarter about educating yourself w/good info and use video, a lot can change. Especially if you're not athletically inclined.

[iacas]

Couple of quick comments. I agree with the rest.

13 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Most golf instructors are not very good at their jobs and most golfers are not very good at communicating their goals.  Based on my experiences most golf instructors (excluding Evolvr and  TST instructors) want to teach you their swing.  It doesn't matter how old, how strong, how flexible or how athletic you are they want you to swing how they do or they think they do.  They aren't teaching you how to golf, they are teaching you how to golf like they do.

I'd modify that to say that many golf instructors don't even have "a swing" they want to teach you. Many will just teach you things they've read in magazines, or seen online, or things that they're trying to do. These tend to be feels only without any understanding of the mechanics.

13 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Their swing might be a technically correct swing, but it might not be appropriate for the student.  What I like about 5SK is that they don't care how you swing as long as your swing incorporates the 5 keys but after achieving 3 keys you should be functional on the golf course.

Two keys is enough to be a 9 handicap. But it's closer to mastery of those keys than you may be thinking.

[newtogolf]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

Couple of quick comments. I agree with the rest.

I'd modify that to say that many golf instructors don't even have "a swing" they want to teach you. Many will just teach you things they've read in magazines, or seen online, or things that they're trying to do. These tend to be feels only without any understanding of the mechanics.

Two keys is enough to be a 9 handicap. But it's closer to mastery of those keys than you may be thinking.

I agree, the one instructor I had would come up with a crazy swing method every two weeks that he'd try to teach all his students.  

Also good to know about the keys, thanks for clarifying.  

[Ernest Jones]

15 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I agree, the one instructor I had would come up with a crazy swing method every two weeks that he'd try to teach all his students.  

Also good to know about the keys, thanks for clarifying.  

I think I remember you telling that story! Was that the guy with the magic triangle that became the magic rectangle and then the mystic circle or something like that? Sounds like the guy had an epiphany every Wednesday before your Friday lesson. 

[CarlSpackler]

6 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I think I remember you telling that story! Was that the guy with the magic triangle that became the magic rectangle and then the mystic circle or something like that? Sounds like the guy had an epiphany every Wednesday before your Friday lesson. 

Sounds more like a retired Geometry teacher? 

[boogielicious]

13 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I think I remember you telling that story! Was that the guy with the magic triangle that became the magic rectangle and then the mystic circle or something like that? Sounds like the guy had an epiphany every Wednesday before your Friday lesson. 

The magic dodecahedron!

[newtogolf]

24 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I think I remember you telling that story! Was that the guy with the magic triangle that became the magic rectangle and then the mystic circle or something like that? Sounds like the guy had an epiphany every Wednesday before your Friday lesson. 

LOL, yep, that's him.  We went through every geometric shape he could think of.  His goal was to uncover Hogans secret and make millions selling training videos and books.  

[CarlSpackler]

6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

LOL, yep, that's him.  We went through every geometric shape he could think of.  His goal was to uncover Hogans secret and make millions selling training videos and books.  

And where is he today? 

[Groucho Valentine]

Without reading this thread....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You'll be back....

[newtogolf]

9 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

And where is he today? 

I'm not sure, I saw him for years continuing to give lessons at the range I use, same crazy swing methods still hunting for the secret. 

Sadly I had heard he had a stroke at the end of last year and moved to Florida full time to recover.  I tried to look him up just to see if he was okay but wasn't able to find him.    

[CarlSpackler]

10 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I'm not sure, I saw him for years continuing to give lessons at the range I use, same crazy swing methods still hunting for the secret. 

Sadly I had heard he had a stroke at the end of last year and moved to Florida full time to recover.  I tried to look him up just to see if he was okay but wasn't able to find him.    

Sorry to hear about the stroke. A close family friend in Ohio had one yesterday. I will keep an eye out down here. If I hear of someone teaching the hexagon principle on the range, I will let you know.

[Kevinwelland]

I finally made up my mind and stopped for good last weekend. I have been playing for a year. I took lessons,practiced,you name it. But my scores were nothing short of horrendous. My worse was 208 on a par 72 (Yes I can hear you all laughing) worst score on a par 4 was 23...Mark Twain was right when he said golf is a good walk spoiled. Anyway I'm out for good. It just isn't worth the pain....

[Hiway1tele]

2 hours ago, Kevinwelland said:

I finally made up my mind and stopped for good last weekend. I have been playing for a year. I took lessons,practiced,you name it. But my scores were nothing short of horrendous. My worse was 208 on a par 72 (Yes I can hear you all laughing) worst score on a par 4 was 23...Mark Twain was right when he said golf is a good walk spoiled. Anyway I'm out for good. It just isn't worth the pain....

KW,

I made the same decision last year..no regrets whatsoever...my attitude towards all things is far better..I took lessons also for 18 months, and practiced most days...in the end, I just accepted that some people like myself, have no ability to swing a club..and never will...as well, some of us dont have the temperment for playing lousy golf and enjoying it...there are always plenty of other things to take up ones time..