The Tiger Woods Retirement Thread

[ChrisP]

Quote:

He should've been working on his game the last 8 months....

....oh wait, he was.

Eh, I don't know "how much" he really was. There's a lot of things that come out of Hank Haney's mouth that I think is envious, but one thing he said that I believe is true is he has not been practicing the way he used to. Not even close. Haney said when he was with him and even after he left him, Tiger would play 18, 36, even 54 holes a day in Isleworth obsessed with getting better. Since his back problems at the FedEx two years ago, Tiger has not done that at all. He said from what he's heard, "he's practiced" a lot, hitting balls and chipping, but it's not the strenuous long day's work that he used to put in and it's not the practice rounds. Haney seems to think, as do I, that until Tiger starts doing that, he's going to struggle. So we'll see. He needs those rounds, but his back is keeping him and has been keeping him from getting practice rounds.

[David in FL]

His back is fine. His butt is stiff..... :~(

[Chris E]

I like your style, Saints, you're about to make as many friends as I have on here. Unfortunately most peope have their head buried too far up...uhhh the sand...to face reality here and would rather believe their boy Eldrick is as pure as the driven snow. Is Tiger the GOAT? Heck no, because of this sad reality that's becoming more apparent by the day to anyone who has their eyes open.

Hi Skydog. I was hoping I would get a chance to reply to you. By coincidence I started reading up on Duane Allman a few months ago. What a tragedy such a talent was struck down so early in life. I too am a fan. Whipping Post is one of my top 5 favorite songs of all time, and Melissa is not far behind.

Maybe there is a lesson in human nature that we can learn from Duane's life. I recently read he was voted the #2 ranked guitarist of all time by Rolling Stone in some poll. I found that strange with such a small body of work since he died so young. Putting him ahead of people like Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Clapton, SRV, EVH, etc. seemed out of whack to me. Did the fact he was unable to continue his work have any bearing on his legacy?

I wondered.....if instead of dying at such that young age, what if he developed some mental issue where his playing turned to shit. Call it the axe man yips, or something. If he continued to play for years like that, making a fool out of himself, do you think he would have been voted the #2 guitarist of all time by Rolling Stone? I doubt it. His legacy is intact because of something out of his control, not because of any fall off of his talent.

Now our hero TW is going through these dreaded physical issues, that never seem to flare up while hitting 1000's of balls and constant practice, or rolling around in the yard with the kids and Notah.  The odds!

Yes, there is a lesson in there somewhere. Is it better to burn out than fade away? Skydog, do you think if somebody had a chance to control his legacy by having an excuse for not being able to perform, they would? Would some people carry on for years as pack fodder after once being great, or would they instead bow out due to alleged injuries such as the dreaded glute deactivation that are out of their control? How would the public view these two different scenarios? How would the ego of the hero react in either scenario?

Yes, I am beginning to think that your prediction about him retiring soon is a good one. It will be the excuse of physical issues trotted out, but some may think the real reason is something else....

Take care, my friend Skydog. You at lease have one friend here, and as a friend I advise you not to let glute deactivation sneak up on you, too.

[Gunther]

...or rolling around in the yard with the kids and Notah.

Might be the funniest thing I've ever read here, almost fell outta my couch. Bravo!

[iacas]

No doubt in my mind that Woods went from being a lanky young golfer to later a steroided-up Barry Bonds lookalike.

I saw Barry Bonds when he was a Pirate, and later after he'd done steroids.

I saw Tiger Woods 15 years ago or so, and saw him again every few years since.

To compare the two… well, I'll just say you can't, really, unless you're looking to contrast them. They're not the same. Tiger's head didn't grow six sizes, he's also not as muscular in person as he can appear on TV. It's not even close.

That's not to say he didn't do PEDs (though I think there's been no evidence to say he has, and don't think he has), but it is to say that comparing Bonds' transformation to Tiger's is really, really off-target.

[mvmac]

No doubt in my mind that Woods went from being a lanky young golfer to later a steroided-up Barry Bonds lookalike.

And the PGA Tour officials apparently just turned their heads to what was happening with their "cash cow".

But here in the end this bulked-up look hurt Woods as this bulky frame was more difficult to rotate the older Woods got.

And now his spine has been twisted so much that it can no longer take this rotation.

Will Woods lose 30-35 pounds to become slimmer?

Might not matter much as the damage has already been done.

Tiger Woods has never been "bulky", I've seen him up close in 2010 and 2013 and he's just fit. I've also met Bonds on a golf course, when has was still playing for the Giants. Bonds had much bigger arms, chest, back, head.

Do you seriously expect Tiger to look the same now as he did when he was 21?

[Shorty]

Do you seriously expect Tiger to look the same now as he did when he was 21?

He expects him to look the same as he did when he was a lanky 16 year old. :-)

[Saintsmania]

Oh, whether it is Woods, Bonds, McGuire, or Sosa they all used performance enhancing drugs to bulk up.

I was watching the golf telecast last week and the tv guys had photos and video of the young Woods and the older Woods.

The younger Woods was a skinny guy with his clothes hanging off his body where the current Woods is a bulked up guy with huge shoulders and chest.

Of course photo comparisons of McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds would have looked the same.

So we can agree to disagree.

[Saintsmania]

Woods is not yet 40 years old so middle age spread has not yet set in.

So he should look pretty much the same as his metabolism would have slowed very little.

I don't know how much weight he has gained but I'd think 20-25 pounds would be close.

So we can all speculate what caused this change.

[billchao]

Oh, whether it is Woods, Bonds, McGuire, or Sosa they all used performance enhancing drugs to bulk up. I was watching the golf telecast last week and the tv guys had photos and video of the young Woods and the older Woods. The younger Woods was a skinny guy with his clothes hanging off his body where the current Woods is a bulked up guy with huge shoulders and chest. Of course photo comparisons of McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds would have looked the same.  So we can agree to disagree.

Only to the point that you seem to have an axe to grind with Tiger and you want to lump him in with Barry Bonds, yea we definitely disagree. I take it you've never seen him in person. He's not big or bulky at all. Funny thing with television and photography is that you lose the frame of reference our minds use to scale things, so everyone looks bigger than they would if you saw them in person. [quote name="Saintsmania" url="/t/79927/the-tiger-woods-retirement-thread/120#post_1104662"]Woods is not yet 40 years old so middle age spread has not yet set in. So he should look pretty much the same as his metabolism would have slowed very little. I don't know how much weight he has gained but I'd think 20-25 pounds would be close. So we can all speculate what caused this change. [/quote]Ok, so he was about what, 145lbs as a teenager and he gained 20-25lbs? That's perfectly within the realm of reason for a normal person, not to speak of a professional athlete. Besides, you don't need PEDs to get huge, so if you're accusing Tiger of using illegal substances based on weight and muscle mass gain alone, I know a bunch of weightlifters who would tell you otherwise. Anyway, this is all definitely OT.

[Chris E]

Might be the funniest thing I've ever read here, almost fell outta my couch. Bravo!

As luck would have it, I turned on TGC when I got in bed last night and I was fortunate enough to see a live phone interview with Notah on whatever news show they had on. I almost urinated on myself with excitement!

I learned that Notah has spent time with Tiger this week, and that he thinks that Tiger seeing him was good for him. He said they played golf and went to the gym! He said Tiger was going to go watch Lindsey ski this weekend. He said Tiger was good mentally. The plethora of information coming from our embedded correspondant was a gold mine!

It got dicey for embedded correspondent Notah when the host asked him whyTiger had to make a public announcement about this, since he still my play Honda which was his schedule anyway. This is what the haters were thinking as well. What a cheap shot, and it made our fearless reporter stutter while he tried to answer. I am still unable to piece together what his answer was, it seemed like mostly gibberish.

The haters may think that TW just likes being a drama queen and in the spotlight. The haters may also think it is BS that an obvious conflict of interest is disguised as a TGC analyst. The haters may start calling Notah Baghdad Bob, or Judith Miller.

[CraiginKSA]

Retire and do what?  Design golf courses?  Tiger doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who works well with others.  He's arrogant and can barely stand walking from green to tee box while actively ignoring the rabble who come and see him play.  I can't imagine him sitting in a design office all day talking about moving dirt around and where to put the railroad ties.

He's only 39.  Not old for a golfer.  Tom Watson came within a bad bounce of winning the Open at 59!  I think he reworks his swing for the 10th time and comes back as a streaky guy who either misses the cut or contends.  I think there is 0% chance of him retiring in the next 10 years.  However, I put the odds at 100% that Lindsey is gone by year end.  There are a lot of blue-eyed blonds out there who would love a ride in a G5, or whatever Tiger is flying these days.

[Spitfisher]

I saw Barry Bonds when he was a Pirate, and later after he'd done steroids. I saw Tiger Woods 15 years ago or so, and saw him again every few years since. To compare the two… well, I'll just say you can't, really, unless you're looking to contrast them. They're not the same. Tiger's head didn't grow six sizes, he's also not as muscular in person as he can appear on TV. It's not even close. That's not to say he didn't do PEDs (though I think there's been no evidence to say he has, and don't think he has), but it is to say that comparing Bonds' transformation to Tiger's is really, really off-target.

100% of the time steroid users deny ever doing them until they are caught, sounds crazy doesn't it- but it's true. We never know until they admit it or get caught, usually the latter first. Look at what we witness day in and day out by people who literally have it all, yet despite this we still get news daily. look at what we got this week, Little league world championships team cheated and stripped of their championship, Brian Williams reporting to 100s of millions of people of an experience he had, that we know know never happened. why? Perhaps the most famous PED story is lance Armstrong not only did he lie, not only was one tour de 100 not enough but he continued on a path of behavior that mirrors organized crime. Yes organized and calcualting crime, people that think or believe it was just some guy on a bike & EPO are the foolish ones. We can go up and down the line of famous athletes, a who's who of using PEDs, cheating and lying, many times both. Not all athletes are dirty in this regard. There is so much money at stake in professional sports athletes try to get the edge. I believe given the time frame of 2000-2006 a host of athletes were trying to get the edge, set records, make some cash, extend and even start careers, be it the Williams sisters in tennis, McGuire, Sosa, various other athletes in the nfl, nba and yes possibly even Mr Woods. All of these athletes had money and resources to get help with designer drugs way ahead of the testing methods. Technically legal because they were not discovered. Many were so fine tuned the typical conditions and physical characteristics were no obvious when used. Many who made these drugs were doctors, and highly educated chemists. I remind people that drug testing is not a search warrant where they just look for things. Drug testing is specific, designer drugs with a different moleculer make up can be invisible to testing with masking too. Some for a specific length of time in the body. Even the characteristics such as a larger head, deltoid muscles etc were no longer a look of PED use. With Mr woods there is an association of contacts, there is a physical change, a demeanor of win at all costs and there is the likelihood & a possibility. Coincidentally drug testing in the pga began almost the exact year that his talents and domination began to let's call it fade. As we all found out from his hydrant escapades he is capable of lying, deceit , greed and abuse for self gain. To project a personality of wholesome, hard work, successful family & fatherhood, earn millions in sponsorship with that projection- well we all know that was just one big scam. But I digress. Athletes who are often on PEDs and cycle off of it, over time often have a breaking down, prone to injury- knees, ankles, wrists are often the first to go. The sculptured look can soften, but the mass is still there. Does this mean he was juicing, off course not. But in this day and age for someone to say he defiantly wasn't is either niave to us of what is going on or believes Brian Williams in everything he says. Personally I feel any athlete could drop a bombshell tomorrow stating they cheated, lied or demonstrated behavior negatively. And I for one would not be surprised no matter who it is. the further they dominate a sport, the more likely of an edge and the less of a surprise that they did. OMO

[Saintsmania]

Hey, it's just my opinion---and it differs from yours.

But the fact is that Woods has gained in excess of 30 pounds.

Check out the internet articles confirming this.

Have a nice day!

[bjfox10]

Hey, it's just my opinion---and it differs from yours.

But the fact is that Woods has gained in excess of 30 pounds.

Check out the internet articles confirming this.

Have a nice day!

Are they all on steroids? Or are we not quite finished developing at age 19?

[David in FL]

Tiger Woods has never been "bulky", I've seen him up close in 2010 and 2013 and he's just fit. I've also met Bonds on a golf course, when has was still playing for the Giants. Bonds had much bigger arms, chest, back, head.  Do you seriously expect Tiger to look the same now as he did when he was 21?

Agree. We've watched him grow from a skinny 16 year old into adulthood as a professional athlete who has always taken his conditioning seriously. I haven't seen anything that makes me suspect the use of PED's. Not saying it couldn't have happened, but the fact that he's a bigger, more fit guy in his 30's than he was in his late teens doesn't mean much to me.

[newtogolf]

Hey, it's just my opinion---and it differs from yours.

But the fact is that Woods has gained in excess of 30 pounds.

Check out the internet articles confirming this.

Have a nice day!

Most of us gained that much as they went from teenager to adult.  I've never used PED's but gained at least that much lean muscle from 16 - 22 from playing football.   Take off the tin foil hat, stop reading tabloids and watching TMZ.

Weight gain doesn't mean PED's, Ken Griffey Jr. is considered to be one of the few baseball players that was never caught up in the PED's scandal but when he entered the league at age 20, he weighed 185lbs and when he retired at 43 he weighed 230.  Griffey also suffered from numerous soft tissue injuries and had a similar drop off in performance at the end of his career.  How much weight do you think Rory has gained since he made his first start on the Euro Tour?  I'd bet at least 20lbs.  Is Rory using PED's too?

Again, I'm not defending Woods, but if you're going to make accusations do so with more facts than weight gain and how you "think" he looked.  Otherwise it just comes off as ignorant and vindictive.

[colin007]

Hey, it's just my opinion---and it differs from yours.

But the fact is that Woods has gained in excess of 30 pounds.

Check out the internet articles confirming this.

Have a nice day!

the only fact that you have is that he has gained 30 lbs.

lets take me for example.  i was 16 yrs old, 6'4", 165 lbs.  very tall, lanky, skinny.  in 4 years, i was still the same height but i weighed 225 lbs of mostly muscle.  thats 60 (SIXTY!!) lbs in 4 years.  all i did was eat protein and lift 3x a week.  never once took any kind of steroid.