Paula Creamer wants a Women’s Masters at Augusta [SB Nation]

[jbishop15]

  Spitfisher said:

Without back reading some of the responses. Augusta, the masters was created as championship for men. The course was designed as so. It's private club rich in history. if Paula wants an Augusta or a " masters" like feel for the LPGA. I am all for it. Go find a course. The richness, feel and history of Augusta can not be created over night or recreated as a second championship tournament.

Paula I'm sure can play as a guest at Augusta, but if she or others truly want to create a historical women's championship, well there are plenty of courses available. started it up and see where you are in 25 years....

That's not really the point, though. It's not about "creating a tradition"; it's about women playing at the Masters specifically. Saying the course was designed for men isn't actually an argument, because nearly all clubs were built "for men".

  Rick Martin said:

Exactly. Stop coat-tailing on the success of another tour - develope your own success. See my Trump idea.  Go with it.

"Coat-tailing on the success of another tour"; Really? That's really what you think she's doing? Again, it's not about creating a tradition: it's more, "The Masters is awesome, and I want to play on that course in a professional tournament."

Really, this boils down to one thing: Augusta National doesn't want to. The idea that they couldn't pull this off logistically isn't a great one; I've lived in the south my whole life, in Georgia, and I can tell you that it's not that damn hard to keep the course in wonderful condition, especially with the money and underground temperature management system they have.

The idea that there wouldn't be interest is also strange to me; all the people who were unable to go to the men's tournament would shell out for practice rounds and tournament rounds. They could make nearly double the money the make as spectators and advertisers tripped all over themselves to get a chance to associate themselves with Augusta National.

Hell, even the idea that the mystique is somehow lessened isn't all that great. A course that it played twice a year isn't going to lose that much mystery, because it's only seen twice a year .

[Vinsk]

"people who were unable to go to the men's tournament would shell out for practice rounds and tournament rounds." Why? You mean the people who mostly go to see and walk the course? Because these "people" aren't shelling out for the other LPGA tournaments when a men's isn't going on. I love the Masters. But for me, watching the course get played by the LPGA would be like watching a slam dunk contest with the rim lowered to 9'. Just not the same.

[newtogolf]

  jbishop15 said:

That's not really the point, though. It's not about "creating a tradition"; it's about women playing at the Masters specifically. Saying the course was designed for men isn't actually an argument, because nearly all clubs were built "for men".

"Coat-tailing on the success of another tour"; Really? That's really what you think she's doing? Again, it's not about creating a tradition: it's more, "The Masters is awesome, and I want to play on that course in a professional tournament."

Really, this boils down to one thing: Augusta National doesn't want to. The idea that they couldn't pull this off logistically isn't a great one; I've lived in the south my whole life, in Georgia, and I can tell you that it's not that damn hard to keep the course in wonderful condition, especially with the money and underground temperature management system they have.

The idea that there wouldn't be interest is also strange to me; all the people who were unable to go to the men's tournament would shell out for practice rounds and tournament rounds. They could make nearly double the money the make as spectators and advertisers tripped all over themselves to get a chance to associate themselves with Augusta National.

Hell, even the idea that the mystique is somehow lessened isn't all that great. A course that it played twice a year isn't going to lose that much mystery, because it's only seen twice a year.

Do you watch the LPGA?  Double their money?  The LPGA gallery size is significantly smaller than the PGA Tour.  I'd guess the majority of attendees that did show up would be there for the course not the LPGA players.   I like to watch the LPGA, but I think you and Paula are over estimating what the actual interest would be.

There are thousands of courses they could play with any tournament conditions they choose to employ, but Paula singled out Augusta, I'd say that's coat-tailing.

[rkim291968]

  iacas said:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/creamer-not-giving-womens-masters-idea/

Quote:

Yeah, Paula Creamer knows Augusta National Chairman Billy Payne just shot down the notion of a women’s Masters… “He did,” Creamer said Tuesday at the Swinging Skirts Classic. “But there is no reason why you can't revisit things and you can't look at it. I think somebody's got to speak up and say something. I've never been afraid to do that, so there is no reason why I can't voice my opinion on it . . . It’s an idea. I don't think that people should be ashamed to talk about it. I would like to know truthfully why we wouldn't be able to have a tournament there.

“Women's golf definitely deserves  needs something like that. I think it would be a great place to host that.”

Can't blame for speaking her mind but I think she is confused about the usage of word "deserve."

[Rick Martin]

  Vinsk said:

"people who were unable to go to the men's tournament would shell out for practice rounds and tournament rounds."

Why? You mean the people who mostly go to see and walk the course? Because these "people" aren't shelling out for the other LPGA tournaments when a men's isn't going on.

I love the Masters. But for me, watching the course get played by the LPGA would be like watching a slam dunk contest with the rim lowered to 9'. Just not the same.

I agree with you.

And this request by Paula smells that some sort of entitlement "equality for all" movement that anything men have access to, the women should have equal access. I could be wrong.

[Golfingdad]

  Rick Martin said:

I could be wrong.

This is quite likely.

[jbishop15]

  newtogolf said:

Do you watch the LPGA?  Double their money?  The LPGA gallery size is significantly smaller than the PGA Tour.  I'd guess the majority of attendees that did show up would be there for the course not the LPGA players.   I like to watch the LPGA, but I think you and Paula are over estimating what the actual interest would be.

There are thousands of courses they could play with any tournament conditions they choose to employ, but Paula singled out Augusta, I'd say that's coat-tailing.

Of course they would go for the course. That's why most people go anyways; that's why I went, anyways. Watching a golf tournament live is fun, but not that fun. People would love to have more opportunities to see the course.

This idea of coat-tailing doesn't make any sense to me. Who wouldn't want to play professionally at a place like the Masters? She obviously can't play with the men, so why not have a women's tournament? Plus, even if it is coat-tailing, it's good for the game; the more exposure the women players get, the more women play. That brings in more revenue and the like.

  Vinsk said:

"people who were unable to go to the men's tournament would shell out for practice rounds and tournament rounds."

Why? You mean the people who mostly go to see and walk the course? Because these "people" aren't shelling out for the other LPGA tournaments when a men's isn't going on.

I love the Masters. But for me, watching the course get played by the LPGA would be like watching a slam dunk contest with the rim lowered to 9'. Just not the same.

So, you're saying that if there was a women's tournament at Augusta, and they have practice round and tournament round tickets, you wouldn't go? A lot of people would jump at the opportunity to experience Augusta National again, myself included.

I think the LPGA's international following is being undervalued here.

  Rick Martin said:

I agree with you.

And this request by Paula smells that some sort of entitlement "equality for all" movement that anything men have access to, the women should have equal access. I could be wrong.

Lord.

[Rick Martin]

  Golfingdad said:

This is quite likely.

[Scotsclaff]

  rkim291968 said:

Can't blame for speaking her mind but I think she is confused about the usage of word "deserve."

Yes,everyone deserves to speak their mind.

[No Mulligans]

Wasn't last weeks pga exciting with the playoff and Fyurk finally getting another win, and in a playoff?

But what about last weeks LPGA, ... SY Kim hits a beautiful drive on the final hole that suprisingly rolls out all the way to the water, a distance she thought was not drivable.  After taking the penalty and a drop she misses the green only to chip it in to send the tournament into a playoff.  Replaying the 18th she wisely chooses 3w and stripes it.  Then she holes out from 150 yards to win the thing.  Are you kidding me!!  How can you say that's not entertaining?

I love watching the LPGA.

Paula / the LPGA has the right to ask.

And I respect the members at Augusta right to just say no.

(And I agree with others that 5 majors is too many, it cheapens the majors.  They first should eliminate one or two of those majors.)

[ghalfaire]

I have been reading this thread a couple of days now and holding my tongue.  First I don't think this is a good idea for a LPGA Masters as the LPGA already has 5 majors and adding another only dilutes the importance of the majors.  Having said that I would like to see them Play at Augusta National.  They play a pretty good brand of golf and I watch then whenever I have time and especially the majors.   Maybe the LPGA could have a "players" tournament at Augusta or some other course with good status, maybe a west coast venue like Torrey Pines or Pebble Beach.

[Jeremie Boop]

I'm fine with them asking, there's no harm in that. However, if this becomes a "movement" to try and force it to happen it would probably bother me a bit. I don't necessarily think that it will go that route, because I'm sure the LPGA knows that would hurt their reputation more than help it, but when you get "no" for an answer and you keep pushing for it.... I don't know, it just reminds me of how a petulant child won't accept being told "no".

[JP golf]

Aye....  I have mixed thoughts on this one.  I think it would be awesome for the women to be able to play Augusta, but part of the allure of the course is it's exclusivity.  The Masters is such a big deal and the history is amazing...  Allowing an LPGA event at the same course could possibly dilute the prestige of the event because we would be seeing more of the course.  It's almost a supply and demand type approach...  Limit our accessibility and the demand stays incredibly high with the history and specialty of the masters in tact.

I'm all for growing the game and accessibility to golf for all, but in this specific case, I have to lean towards the side of no.  Augusta controls so much with regards to it's coverage that I don't think they will give this another thought.  They obviously do not want an LPGA event there.

...I would love to see the LPGA play the same setup as the guys at Augusta - but it's not going to happen and I can understand why.  Augusta really has no benefit to hosting an LPGA event and they don't need it.

[rkim291968]

  No Mulligans said:

But what about last weeks LPGA, ... SY Kim hits a beautiful drive on the final hole that suprisingly rolls out all the way to the water, a distance she thought was not drivable.  After taking the penalty and a drop she misses the green only to chip it in to send the tournament into a playoff.  Replaying the 18th she wisely chooses 3w and stripes it.  Then she holes out from 150 yards to win the thing.  Are you kidding me!!  How can you say that's not entertaining?

She hit an 8 iron for the 150 yard shot.   She's only 5 feet 3 inches tall.  Wow.

Back to the topic ... Augusta has spoken.  Let's leave it at that.

[turtleback]

  Lastpick said:

Do they have tee boxes at Augusta National that would allow the women to attempt to reach the par fives in two.  This is really important on the back nine.  Also, number 12 could be a tough shot for many of the women.

  Lastpick said:

Thanks for posting the card.  I did look up the driving distances for the LPGA and they don't hit the ball as far as I thought.  I just don't think that the course would be a good setup for the women if it had firm fast greens.  Lots of deep bunkers and forced carries.  Also, how does number 16 come out as the easiest hole on the course?  I also would like to add that course experience at Augusta National is critical in game management.  Thus the LPGA players would have none which could lead to a marketing disaster.

  Golfingdad said:

It's another topic, but that is a common misconception - also one I used to have.  Hole handicaps don't equate to difficulty.  The number 1 and 2 handicapped holes aren't the hardest on the front and back, they're the holes deemed to be those with the largest separation in scores between good and bad players.

While in general you have accurately described how the handicap holes should be determined, I seriously doubt that that was how these were.

1) I'm guessing that these were established long before the CR/slope system was implemented and you really cannot set the handicap holes in the way you describe without that data.  And ANG has still never been rated and sloped, so they still could not use that approach unless they did their own private rating.

2) Then there is the internal evidence.  If you look closely I think that you will find that the handicap holes were set using the simplistic approach of just ranking the holes by distance with the evens on one nine and the odds on the other.  It was not uncommon in the pre-CR/slope days for handicap hols to be set based solely on distnace, although it was by no means universal.

[Mulligan Jeff]

Funny thing is that I don't see Augusta's women members jumping on Paula's bandwagon.

[rkim291968]

  Mulligan Jeff said:

Funny thing is that I don't see Augusta's women members jumping on Paula's bandwagon.

How many active women members are there?   Two?  Three?   Does anyone know?

[14ledo81]

  jbishop15 said:

I can tell you that it's not that damn hard to keep the course in wonderful condition, especially with the money and underground temperature management system they have.

Really??  And how do you know this?

  jbishop15 said:

The idea that there wouldn't be interest is also strange to me; all the people who were unable to go to the men's tournament would shell out for practice rounds and tournament rounds. They could make nearly double the money the make as spectators and advertisers tripped all over themselves to get a chance to associate themselves with Augusta National.

This as well......