USGA/R&A Introduce "Modernized" Rules

[Missouri Swede]

24 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Fair? 

Equitable.  Like situations are treated similarly.  Hitting one "off the reservation" is a worse infraction than hitting into the a hazard on the course.

[jsgolfer]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

Absolutely.

Only one of those players hit their ball off the golf course.

Would it make a difference if the course didn't own the body of water.  I'm not saying it would or should, just that I have played some courses, where the pond is owned by the County as one of their stormwater management ponds and another course, the ponds were part of the local wastewater utilities treatment plant disposal process.  

[iacas]

48 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

Would it make a difference if the course didn't own the body of water.  I'm not saying it would or should, just that I have played some courses, where the pond is owned by the County as one of their stormwater management ponds and another course, the ponds were part of the local wastewater utilities treatment plant disposal process.  

No. Pebble Beach could mark left of #18 OB if they wanted to do so.

[Fourputt]

5 hours ago, Vinsk said:

So answer this please, a left handed golfer hits a slice off the tee, OB. Stroke and distance. A right hander steps up and slices his tee shot into the lateral hazard. So lefty is hitting 3 from the tees. Righty is hitting 3 200-220 yds further down towards the hole. Fair? 

Yep.  Righty kept his ball on the golf course.

[Vinsk]

33 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Yep.  Righty kept his ball on the golf course.

Yeah...Erik shut my what I thought was such a great example down pretty quick. I stand corrected.

[1badbadger]

6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

So answer this please, a left handed golfer hits a slice off the tee, OB. Stroke and distance. A right hander steps up and slices his tee shot into the lateral hazard. So lefty is hitting 3 from the tees. Righty is hitting 3 200-220 yds further down towards the hole. Fair? 

If they both hit a hook, then the righty is OB with stroke and distance and the lefty is the one further down the fairway, so it could go both ways.  This to me makes it fair.

[Hardspoon]

Question: my initial thought was that the concept of "penalty areas" would allow a course (if they chose) to eliminate OB entirely. 

However, I'm realizing that might not be entirely true. If a course has what is a clear boundary (a major road, say) and they mark the course side of it as a "penalty area" and include no white stakes or OB marking, is that assumed to extend indefinitely? Would a ball hit over the road be treated as if it is in the penalty area?

[iacas]

@Hardspoon yes.

[Hardspoon]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

@Hardspoon yes.

Well, in that case, I think the proposed new rules eliminate any reason to change OB from stroke-and-distance.  The USGA is now giving courses the option on how they want to treat their boundaries.

 

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

Well, in that case, I think the proposed new rules eliminate any reason to change OB from stroke-and-distance.  The USGA is now giving courses the option on how they want to treat their boundaries.

Not really. There will be guidelines.

[DaveP043]

13 hours ago, Hardspoon said:

Well, in that case, I think the proposed new rules eliminate any reason to change OB from stroke-and-distance.  The USGA is now giving courses the option on how they want to treat their boundaries.

 

13 hours ago, iacas said:

Not really. There will be guidelines.

Right now, many courses classify areas as "lateral hazard" even though there's no watercourse involved, even though current guidelines don't allow it.  My home club is one of them.  I'm sure that if the proposed rules are put into effect, some courses will disregard whatever guidelines are published.  Just as you can't make rules to stop players from cheating, you can't do much to force individual clubs to follow the guidelines.  The fact that some clubs disregard guidelines shouldn't deter the USGA from making these changes.

[nevets88]

Review process is done.

Quote

The R&A and USGA highlighted three key areas from the review process:

“Golfers are enthusiastic about the scope and direction of the overall changes, such as pace-of-play improvements, the elimination of penalties and streamlined procedures.

“Golfers provided the most feedback on the proposed Rules changes focused on the putting green (such as putting with the flagstick left in the hole, repairing spike marks and eliminating the penalty for accidentally moving a ball); the creation of “penalty areas” (extending water hazard type relief and eliminating penalties for moving loose impediments and grounding a club); and the new dropping procedures (including the size of “relief areas”).

“Golfers strongly welcomed the new Player’s Edition of the Rules and found it much easier to read and understand.”

http://golfweek.com/2017/09/07/review-process-complete-as-ra-usga-prepare-to-deliver-changes-to-rules-of-golf/

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Review process is done.

The "user" review process (and feedback period) is done.

The USGA/R&A are still reviewing.

---

USGA and The R&A Receive Extensive Feedback in Global Program to Modernize Golf's Rules FAR HILLS, N.J., USA and ST ANDREWS, SCOTLAND (September 7, 2017) - The USGA and The R&A have received comments on the proposed new Rules from more than 22,000 golfers in 102 countries, as well as representatives of golf organizations throughout the world, providing valuable feedback as the organizations work toward their implementation on January 1, 2019.  With the worldwide survey and evaluation period now complete, the USGA and The R&A and their respective committees will continue to review all comments received with the goal of finalizing the new Rules next spring and beginning a comprehensive education program later in 2018.    The USGA and The R&A began an extensive review of the Rules starting in 2012, with the intent of making them easier to understand and apply. A draft of the new Rules – reduced from the current 34 to a proposed 24 Rules – was released in March, beginning the six-month feedback period that was open to the entire golf community. “After listening to golfers and reviewing the extensive comments, one thing is very clear – we all share a passion for the game and are eager to be a part of this process,” said Thomas Pagel, USGA senior director of Rules and Amateur Status. “We appreciate everyone who took time to provide their thoughts and insights. They have been very helpful and encouraging.” David Rickman, Executive Director – Governance at The R&A, said, “It is pleasing to see that so many people from different parts of the world have taken this opportunity to engage with the process of modernizing the Rules. We have received insightful comments and suggestions from throughout the professional and amateur game and will take time to consider the feedback in detail. We will then work on finalizing the changes ahead of their implementation in 2019.” While the feedback will continue to be analyzed over the next few months, several common themes emerged, including:  Golfers are enthusiastic about the scope and direction of the overall changes, such as pace-of-play improvements, the elimination of penalties and streamlined procedures.   Golfers provided the most feedback on the proposed Rules changes focused on the putting green (such as putting with the flagstick left in the hole, repairing spike marks and eliminating the penalty for accidentally moving a ball); the creation of “penalty areas” (extending water hazard type relief and eliminating penalties for moving loose impediments and grounding a club); and the new dropping procedures (including the size of “relief areas”).   Golfers strongly welcomed the new Player’s Edition of the Rules and found it much easier to read and understand.  The current 2016 edition of the Rules of Golf remains in effect when playing, posting scores or competing until the Jan. 1, 2019 adoption of the new Rules.   For more information on the proposed new Rules of Golf, see usga.org or randa.org.

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Golfers provided the most feedback on the proposed Rules changes focused on the putting green (such as putting with the flagstick left in the hole, repairing spike marks and eliminating the penalty for accidentally moving a ball); the creation of “penalty areas” (extending water hazard type relief and eliminating penalties for moving loose impediments and grounding a club); and the new dropping procedures (including the size of “relief areas”).

Hmmmmmmm.

[phillyk]

This morning, I attended an golf education seminar and the topic was evolution of the rules.  The leader was a rules official and a member of some committee within the USGA I think.  Anyway, I asked about the proposed rules changes, particularly about the flagstick.  He said that all proposed rules are very likely, at this point, to go through, including the flagstick rule.  When I mentioned the data about making it easier to sink putts and reduce skill involved, etc., he said the decision on whether to keep this rule will not involve this likelihood of making more putts. It's purely about trying to increase pace of play.  He wanted to make it clear that the rules are changing/evolving pretty consistently, so some of these rules may go away after we see what happens, some may not.

He talked about the Dustin Johnson and Lexi Thompson rulings.  He started with the guy sipping beer making a phone call from his couch crap, which bugged the heck out of me.  But, he didn't really have an answer when we came to "intent."  He basically said yeah it may or may not be a problem.  But the rarity of these situations causes him/them to say it won't be a problem in the future, because they'll have officials monitoring the TV's.  He said that the LPGA in 2017 did not have officials monitoring the broadcasts, but there are on the other tour(s).  For the 2018 season and beyond, they will have officials in the booth.

In regards the bifurcation, he said there is no talk what so ever about it (good!).  I got some questions answered, but I have more, of which I don't think he would've been able to answer.  The problem right now is integrity of the game versus integrity of the player.  As he said, the process and the rules evolve.  We are just going through one of these phases.

Edited January 9, 2018 by phillyk

[iacas]

One of my concerns with the flagstick rule is that this can SLOW play further as different people want it in or out.

[DeadMan]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

One of my concerns with the flagstick rule is that this can SLOW play further as different people want it in or out.

I think it will slow play down. There's a Colorado Golf Association rules official (he might be the CGA Head Rules Official) in my men's club who believes you'll make more putts with the flagstick out. He's not the only one, and PGA Tour players take the flagstick out all the time. Which means you'll have people you want it in and people who want it out int he same group. And, slower play.

Edited January 9, 2018 by DeadMan

[Rulesman]

11 hours ago, DeadMan said:

 PGA Tour players take the flagstick out all the time.

Assuming you meant when on the green, I should hope so. Penalty problems otherwise.

[DeadMan]

7 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Assuming you meant when on the green, I should hope so. Penalty problems otherwise.

Yeah, that's what I meant. People see this now and take the flagstick out for shots off the green routinely. I expect that to continue when you don't have to take the flagstick out anymore.