2017 Open Championship at Royal Birkdale Discussion Thread

[rehmwa]

12 minutes ago, Zekez said:

Couldn't disagree more.  One can win without being a jerk.

absolutely.  In a game that's purely relies on skill and composure, I'm not even sure what "too nice to win" even means.  Kuch should have had a tantrum or pouted?  that would have helped him?  Is there a sport where it really applies such that just being excellent wouldn't give better results?

Edited July 24, 2017 by rehmwa

[Groucho Valentine]

3 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

Is he really the best putter in the world?   He's 68th in total putting right now.   He's 37th in strokes gained putting.   We see him make these long putts in the clutch, and we think he's the greatest putter in the world, but he really isn't.  

He's the best. Maybe not this year. But he's body of work gives him that title IMO. Speith does his damage with the putter. 

[Marty2019]

7 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

He's the best. Maybe not this year. But he's body of work gives him that title IMO. Speith does his damage with the putter. 

This is what I get from looking at the stats: he's first in Strokes Gained, Approach to Green.  He's 6th in Strokes Gained, Tee to Green, and he's 4th in Strokes Gained, Total. 

He's 98th in driving distance and 121st in driving accuracy. 

But he's 5th in greens in regulation percentage.   And he's 2nd in birdie average and 2nd in scoring average.   All this tells me he's great with his irons and great with his short game. 

But I still go back to that "4 o'clock in the morning courage."   The ability to stay cool under pressure and get the ball in the hole.   

Edited July 24, 2017 by Marty2019

[DeadMan]

1 minute ago, Groucho Valentine said:

He's the best. Maybe not this year. But he's body of work gives him that title IMO. Speith does his damage with the putter. 

He's first in strokes gained approaching the green. That's why he's so good. He's a good putter, but he's not the best in the world. He's only been top 10 in strokes gained putting twice.

[Marty2019]

4 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

He's first in strokes gained approaching the green. That's why he's so good. He's a good putter, but he's not the best in the world. He's only been top 10 in strokes gained putting twice.

This is all true, but even though he's not one of the best putters, when the tournament is on the line, he seems to throw in these 50 footers with uncanny regularity, which is what is hard to figure out.  How is he doing that? 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Marty2019

[Jack Watson]

SPIETH just has 'it'.

I don't see anyone else right now who does.  It's intangible.  The more experience he gains in the hunt in majors the more of it he gets.

[jamo]

55 minutes ago, cape cod beachfront golfer said:

Yes, I now see 2 official OB's. But I did also see an OB was created for Hole 9 for safety reasons. Safety Reasons was the reason any course I have played would have Driving Ranges OB. I wonder if on the next rotation to R Birkdale the area will be deemed OB or possibly the corporate trailers located in a different spot.

I don't really think it matters though. He didn't hit it there, he dropped his unplayable there. He had other options for that anyway.

[Antneye]

I was up and down on Speith and never quite sure if I was a fan or not.  In terms of talent there is no doubt he is the real thing, but after this weekend I am firmly going to fall into rooting for "anyone but Speith".  I have a track record of rooting against any athlete who is considered to be the "anointed one" so this is no shock.  Other than Phil and Jack I can't really remember ever rooting for someone who wasn't the underdog.

As Phil fades away I am becoming a Fowler guy, but I really like Kuchar and hope he manages to win one soon.  With Rory's struggles I can see myself rooting for him to get back on track.  I will be having a lot of miserable Sundays if no one steps up to be the Ying to Speith's Yang over the next decade.

[Midpack]

45 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

The whole up and down nature of Speiths round certainly did fuel the melodrama. But am i the only one that finds it annoying when sports media and fans canonize athletes as heroic?

"Sports hero" is grossly overused in all sports and many other walks of life IMO. Hero should be reserved for those who risk or sacrifice greatly (even with their lives) for others above themselves. Reaching to accomplish something for yourself displays many admirable virtues, but it's rarely heroic. YMMV

Hero: A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Midpack

[dennyjones]

It's easy to like the current winner.   I believe everyone likes a winner and it takes a certain moxy to like an athlete when they aren't winning.    I like Speith, Fowler and Day based upon the interviews I've seen

Edited July 24, 2017 by dennyjones

[DeadMan]

18 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

This is all true, but even though he's not one of the best putters, when the tournament is on the line, he seems to throw in these 50 footers with uncanny regularity, which is what is hard to figure out.  How is he doing that? 

I think it's confirmation bias. We hear he's a great putter, and then we see him make one long putt in a big moment, so we say stuff like that. He make a lot of long putts, but he's making less than 8% of his putts over 25 feet this year.

I am struggling to think of a long putt he holed in his other major wins - I remember the eagle at the US Open, which wasn't all that long, and him making a lot of 5-10 footers at Augusta.

None of this is to denigrate Spieth at all, by the way. I'm just pointing out that he's great not because of his putting, but because of his approach play. Which is also why other great players are great!

[nevets88]

 

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I get that it's the final round, but the amount of time Spieth took to get that shot resolved was absurd. My dad and I literally had lunch by the time he hit is shot. He needs to work on how slowly he plays.

I wondered at the time if Spieth and Kuchar would be on the clock after the ordeal.  The were certainly out of position as compared to other groups, and I think that position on the course is what triggers "the clock."  I'm sure that others are more knowledgeable and will correct me if I'm wrong.  I know this is the final group on the final day of a major championship,and it certainly would have been controversial to put them on the clock, but rules are supposed apply to all players.

 

 

[Marty2019]

7 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I wondered at the time if Spieth and Kuchar would be on the clock after the ordeal.  The were certainly out of position as compared to other groups, and I think that position on the course is what triggers "the clock."  I'm sure that others are more knowledgeable and will correct me if I'm wrong.  I know this is the final group on the final day of a major championship,and it certainly would have been controversial to put them on the clock, but rules are supposed apply to all players.

 

 

 

I know Spieth is one of the slow players on tour, at least he seems that way to me, and I get irritated at the endless pre-shot discussion, backing off, re-setting, thinking, discussing some more, changing clubs, etc, that a lot of PGA players do, but in this particular case, I think he should get off the hook due to the fact that the entire 20 minutes was spent with a bunch of rules officials, and it seemed to me they were genuinely trying to find the correct spot for him to hit from as quickly as possible. 

24 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

I think it's confirmation bias. We hear he's a great putter, and then we see him make one long putt in a big moment, so we say stuff like that. He make a lot of long putts, but he's making less than 8% of his putts over 25 feet this year.

I am struggling to think of a long putt he holed in his other major wins - I remember the eagle at the US Open, which wasn't all that long, and him making a lot of 5-10 footers at Augusta.

None of this is to denigrate Spieth at all, by the way. I'm just pointing out that he's great not because of his putting, but because of his approach play. Which is also why other great players are great!

I remember a 50 footer late in the Tour Championship, and a 25 footer he made to win a playoff in another tournament.   So he seems to do it pretty regularly.  I agree that statistically he's not the best putter, far from it.  

You are right, he's one of the very best at getting the ball in the hole from the fairway. 

I remember someone on Golf Channel after the 2md or 3rd round made the remark that, paraphrasing, he sucks when he has to put the ball on a tee, but he's great when the ball is on the ground. 

 

 

[DaveP043]

Just now, Marty2019 said:

 

I know Spieth is one of the slow players on tour, at least he seems that way to me, and I get irritated at the endless pre-shot discussion, backing off, re-setting, thinking, discussing some more, changing clubs, etc, that a lot of PGA players do, but in this particular case, I think he should get off the hook due to the fact that the entire 20 minutes was spent with a bunch of rules officials, and it seemed to me they were genuinely trying to find the correct spot for him to hit from as quickly as possible. 

Oh, I don't have a big problem with his process, even though it seemed endless, my question is whether the slow-play rules should have been applied to them after that hole.   What my understanding is that if a group is out of position, at some point the rules require that each player is timed, and play within a specified time after he arrives at the ball.  I believe on the second "bad time" the player is penalized.  I'm not sure of the details, but that's my general understanding of the process.  If Spieth and Kuchar were out of position beyond what the rules allow, that pressure to play each shot within a specified time frame might have changed things a bit.  I wondered whether the rules would require that Spieth and Kuchar be timed, and whether the time pressure might have changed things.  I hope that the rules were applied appropriately, but I don't really know.

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Oh, I don't have a big problem with his process, even though it seemed endless, my question is whether the slow-play rules should have been applied to them after that hole.   What my understanding is that if a group is out of position, at some point the rules require that each player is timed, and play within a specified time after he arrives at the ball.  I believe on the second "bad time" the player is penalized.

I don't think the rules specify leeway for conversing with the rules official. Part of pace of play is hitting good shots. It is up to the group then to know they are out of position and should pick up the pace.

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I don't think the rules specify leeway for conversing with the rules official. Part of pace of play is hitting good shots. It is up to the group then to know they are out of position and should pick up the pace.

No, but the rules don't penalize anyone until after they fall behind, are warned, and subsequently have "bad times".   The 13th hole ordeal would have been only the first step in that process, if indeed they were far enough out of place to trigger it.

[NCGolfer]

46 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

No, but the rules don't penalize anyone until after they fall behind, are warned, and subsequently have "bad times".   The 13th hole ordeal would have been only the first step in that process, if indeed they were far enough out of place to trigger it.

I'd have to go back and watch it but I remember seeing Kuchar (for a brief second) talk to an official after the hole and he nodded and walked off.  I'm guessing they were put on the clock.  They played pretty fast after that (given the tear Jordan went on) so your assumption would hold true that they didn't get another bad time once they were out of position.