Caring About Your Shots (and Playing as Slowly) as Tour Players

[Zeph]

4 minutes ago, NEhomer said:

I can't help but to call BS on ANY golfer who pretends that scoring their very best isn't important to them.

I don't get the fox reference, but then you can't have met a lot of golfers, and in my opinion you seem to lack insight on people in beyond your own perception. I've played with lots of golfers that don't give a hoot what they shoot, but love playing golf.

 

In fact, that statement of yours is quite ludicrous and if I hadn't spent my share of time on the Internet would believe you were making a joke or being ironic.

[NEhomer]

Did any of those golfers you play with who "don't give a hoot what they shoot" swing a $300 driver? Sorry, I'm just not buying it. Every golfer wants to shoot better scores. Some would rather call the grapes sour than to admit that they can't reach them.

It genuinely pains me to shoot a crappy score and if that makes me different than the rest of you, I'm ok with that. 

 

[GrandStranded]

1 minute ago, NEhomer said:

Did any of those golfers you play with who "don't give a hoot what they shoot" swing a $300 driver? Sorry, I'm just not buying it. Every golfer wants to shoot better scores. Some would rather call the grapes sour than to admit that they can't reach them.

It genuinely pains me to shoot a crappy score and if that makes me different than the rest of you, I'm ok with that. 

 

This is me, and everyone I play with.

[klineka]

 

43 minutes ago, NEhomer said:

I can't help but to call BS on ANY golfer who pretends that scoring their very best isn't important to them.

Last weekend I was on a golf trip with 3 buddies. One is similar in skill level to me, upper 70s - low 80s, and the other two regularly shoot over 100. 

Neither of the guys that shoot over 100 care about their score or even asked me at the end of the round what it was. After either our Friday or Saturday round, I asked one of the guys if he wanted to know his score and he said no, all he cared about was the 30 foot putt he made for a bogey, and a drive that was 250+ yds and dead straight.

So yeah, there are people who just play to be outside and with their buddies, dont care about their scores, who dont keep handicaps, dont care if they get better, and just play for the pars and occasional looks at birdie.

For our Sunday round, none of us kept score and we still had a great time. 

 

2 hours ago, NEhomer said:

The closer to par, the more a single stroke counts and we all know that there's more than a one stroke difference between 79 and 80 ...and at your level a 69 is definitely way different than a 70!

This is not true. A single stroke is a single stroke regardless of what you score. (Obviously with the exception of penalties where a single physical stroke can cost you multiple strokes on the scorecard)

A particular round might mean more to someone and put them in a better mood if they shot a 79 vs an 80, or a 69 vs a 70,  but between both of those scores there is only a 1 stroke difference, just like there's a 1 stroke difference between someone shooting a 99 and 100.

One stroke is one stroke. Nothing more, nothing less. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, NEhomer said:

Well we'll just have to disagree. I take the time I need to play as well as I'm capable. It still sounds like you're making an excuse and calling the grapes sour.

As even a non-native English speaker noted… I'm not making excuses. I'm giving my reasons. There are plenty of reasons - valid, legitimate reasons - why I don't care as much about my shots - even when I'm playing in a section event for the PGA - that I don't care about my shots as much as a guy playing for his livelihood, his place in history, etc.

2 hours ago, NEhomer said:

I'm also willing to bet that if the pros didn't take forever and a day to play their shots we wouldn't see any significant drop in scoring average.

That's not the argument. And we'll never know, because most PGA Tour players are going to take as long as they can, within reason, to make sure they have everything nailed down. Why? Because it's their livelihood, or their place in history, or whatever. Because their shots matter more than the shots I take playing with my college team on some random Tuesday.

55 minutes ago, Zeph said:

He's not even excusing his results, where are you getting that from? Stop putting words into his replies that are not there.

Bingo.

55 minutes ago, Zeph said:

If you score better by taking more time, where do you draw the line? Why not spend 5 minutes on every shot to make sure you've mapped out the green properly, measured the distances a couple of times, found the right club, checked the wind, etc.

Exactly. For the average amateur, "enough time" is way less time than for a PGA Tour pro. One of those reasons, as I said already, is that PGA Tour players have a conversation with another person, not just in their minds, and they process more data because that extra data matters.

55 minutes ago, Zeph said:

I don't play for money, so if I shoot 80 or 82 doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

But… but…

55 minutes ago, Zeph said:

If you see it differently and would rather spend spend more time for an extra shot or two less, that's fine. But you can't fault others for not doing what you do. If I played golf for a living, I would probably spend more time, but as it is, I do not.

The only argument I've ever made here is that @NEhomer is in a tiny minority: that the average amateur shouldn't and doesn't care as much about each shot as an average PGA Tour player.

42 minutes ago, NEhomer said:

I can't help but to call BS on ANY golfer who pretends that scoring their very best isn't important to them.

You must have not played golf with that many people.

Seriously, on this forum of serious golfers, you're still going to be in the small minority: even among us here we don't care as much as a PGA Tour player does about each shot we hit.

If you polled golfers, "the score I shot" would probably not be first on the list of the reasons why people play golf. I think people care more about the company they have, some exercise, some fresh air, a place to drink some beers (not me, but some people), the wagering, the friendships, the scenery of the course, the one or two or five great shots they pull off in any given round… etc. Not many golfers care a ton about their scores, nor should they. They aren't playing for a living. PGA Tour players should and thus do care more.

[GrandStranded]

I realize there are guys who play a few times a year, get a group of friends together and go out for a good time. Then there are the guys who can go out late, squeeze as many holes in as possible, and just enjoy the "walk". I know we've strayed from what @iacas meant,  (taking time over shots) but I play almost every single round in some type of competitive format. I care about my score. Because it matters each time I play.

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

I realize there are guys who play a few times a year, get a group of friends together and go out for a good time. Then there are the guys who can go out late, squeeze as many holes in as possible, and just enjoy the "walk". I know we've strayed from what @iacas meant,  (taking time over shots) but I play almost every single round in some type of competitive format. I care about my score. Because it matters each time I play.

I care about my score when I'm playing in section events, etc. too.

I don't - and shouldn't - care as much as a PGA Tour player does or should. You probably don't (and shouldn't) either.

[GrandStranded]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

I care about my score when I'm playing in section events, etc. too.

I don't - and shouldn't - care as much as a PGA Tour player does or should. You probably don't (and shouldn't) either.

I agree. The pros are playing for their living, I'm playing for some pocket money. But maybe I'm just wired a little different then even some guys I play with because of my sports background(?) We played a game a few days ago called "Break Par". 32 players each kick in X amount. If you shoot below your Net par, you are guaranteed to win money. How much depends on how many others do it. I played very well for me. Finished with 3 pars and a birdie, and made my number by 5 shots. The guy in the cart with me said, "Wow, you hurt yourself with that finish, you should've eased up and protected your handicap." I know others might do that, but I don't think that way. If I'm going to play, I'm playing hard. P.S. And I like to play fast. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by GrandStranded

[3jacker]

I care about my shots deeply.  But only after I hit them.

[Patch]

I never try to compare the amateur ranks with the professionals. One group is playing for millions of dollars, the other is spending millions of dollars to play.  

It's the same the professional amateur. Their games are not comparable to mine. 

As for caring about my scores, there are times I do, but more times I don't. Most of the time, I am that guy who after making a quick assessment of what I have to work with, just walk up and hit the ball again. This is especially true at my home course. I pay my $10 walking fee and basically have a fun time just hitting balls, and making putts. $10 for few hours outdoors, and an 85 is a bargain. 

Now later in my $10 round, if I find I am playing well, with breaking 80 a real possibility, I will pay more attention to my shots. I will become more focused.

The times I do care about my scores are when I decide to play a sequence of rounds to see just how good my game is, or isn't. These are the rounds I prepare for. They are the rounds I play when on a road trip, and play a better than average course. Places like Bandon, and Monterey are places I want to play well. They usually cost more, and get my full attention. A 78 after paying 3-5 hundred dollars feels alot better than an 88. I spend more time  on my shots at these places. The more I pay, the more I expect from myself I guess is my way of thinking.

[NEhomer]

Well I've said what I cared to and I still contend that players who claim to not care what they shoot are being dishonest; perhaps with themselves.

Nothing more to add...

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, NEhomer said:

Well I've said what I cared to and I still contend that players who claim to not care what they shoot are being dishonest; perhaps with themselves.

Nobody has said they "do not care what they shoot" (though those golfers do exist), nor is any of that the point to which I originally objected.

On 3/22/2018 at 9:24 AM, NEhomer said:

The second assumption is that amateurs shouldn't care as much about their shots. I don't feed my family with mine but for all the effort and expense golf requires, my shots are kind of important too.

That's what you said, and what I don't think is even close to correct.

If you care about your shots as much as the average PGA Tour pro, you're in a very, very, very small minority. The average amateur shouldn't and doesn't care as much as the average PGA Tour pro.

Why? Because of the many reasons already given.

[Valleygolfer]

Well I am just going to ignore the first two pages... and state my case. I think play is too slow with some of the pros but understand the importance in taking their time to weigh all the options. Personally I think I would play a little better if I slowed down some aspects of my game. I play really quickly and there are times where I miss things that affect shot, so maybe playing a little slower but not "pro slow" would help me...

Edited March 23, 2018 by Valleygolfer

[NM Golf]

I care twice as much as anybody!  

Actually no I don't, I care, but at the end of the day I pay my mortgage, car payment, and feed my children by other means so it's not as important to me as it is to someone who does. Period

[The Recreational Golfer]

When I was working, I cared a lot about the quality of work I turned out. Cared a lot. Golf is my recreation. I care about hitting good shots, but if I started "overcaring", I would be asking of myself things that I can't achieve, which would take all the fun out of golf for no good reason.

[billchao]

32 minutes ago, NEhomer said:

Well I've said what I cared to and I still contend that players who claim to not care what they shoot are being dishonest; perhaps with themselves.

Well if that's your point of view, then there can be no discussion. You'll immediately dismiss anyone who contradicts your position, despite the obvious issue here, which is you can't make value judgments for other people.

---

FWIW I don't care that much about my golf score. I like to shoot lower scores, but I actually find rounds where I hit good shots (even if my putting or scrambling is down) much more satisfying. I'd rather hit a towering 5i to 10' (or wherever my exact target was on the green) than a worm burner for an ace.

15 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

I think play is too slow with some of the pros but understand the importance in taking their time to weigh all the options.

Right. They need to figure out how the lie is going to affect the shot, wind, trajectory, where to bail out, etc. That stuff matters more because their money/ranking/eligibility is on the line.

I look at a ball and determine if I can hit it solidly in the general direction of the green. Significantly fewer variables being accounted for. Can I get it closer to the hole if I wait for a gust of wind to die down? Probably, but why? I'm not that accurate with no wind, might as well let it ride (and play faster in the process).

[NEhomer]

Next Sunday, two teams will play for the NCAA Men's Basketball National Title. Those college players however, won't care as much about winning that title as NBA players because their play is not feeding their families.

 

 

 

[Zeph]

You are comparing oranges and apples.