My Chipping/Pitching is a glaring weakness

[alleztom]

Before this thread got hijacked with chipper debate - does anyone know any good drills to test this? What would be a good way to practice pitch/chipping in a way which replicates match scenarios? I'm interested in what people do because I want to get better at this. Last lesson coach told me I had the long game of an 8 and short game of a 25 😱

[JonMA1]

23 minutes ago, alleztom said:

Before this thread got hijacked with chipper debate - does anyone know any good drills to test this? What would be a good way to practice pitch/chipping in a way which replicates match scenarios? I'm interested in what people do because I want to get better at this. Last lesson coach told me I had the long game of an 8 and short game of a 25 😱

Your coach didn’t give you any drills?

The link in the 2nd post of this topic has a lot of good information.

[HJJ003]

32 minutes ago, alleztom said:

Before this thread got hijacked with chipper debate - does anyone know any good drills to test this? What would be a good way to practice pitch/chipping in a way which replicates match scenarios? I'm interested in what people do because I want to get better at this. Last lesson coach told me I had the long game of an 8 and short game of a 25 😱

That depends on what you are trying to do. If you are trying to engrain the technique for a low running shot, or a normal pitch, or a short sided flop I recommend taking a bucket of balls to the practice green and working on repeating the shot over and over and over so you have a baseline of how to hit that type of shot whenever you encounter it on a course. (As @JonMA1 just posted check out the already linked thread for technique advice.) It is good blocked practice. If you want to simulate some on course stuff then I recommend playing some short game golf. 18 holes from random lies and distances around the practice green at various pins around the practice green. You can keep score by finishing out the "hole" with your putter, or you can keep score by attributing points to every shot you get inside a certain distance to the pin. IIRC LSW recommends using your handicap as a guide for how close you should be able to get consistently on short game shots. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by HJJ003

[alleztom]

39 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

Your coach didn’t give you any drills?

The link in the 2nd post of this topic has a lot of good information.

I touched on it in a lesson - will go back to him with this issue (I took a significant break from lessons and changed coach as the old one moved away) and have had a few on the full swing - it is on the agenda for the next lesson. We touched on technique - video to look back on etc. I was wondering how others try to ingrain it.

38 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

That depends on what you are trying to do. If you are trying to engrain the technique for a low running shot, or a normal pitch, or a short sided flop I recommend taking a bucket of balls to the practice green and working on repeating the shot over and over and over so you have a baseline of how to hit that type of shot whenever you encounter it on a course. (As @JonMA1 just posted check out the already linked thread for technique advice.) It is good blocked practice. If you want to simulate some on course stuff then I recommend playing some short game golf. 18 holes from random lies and distances around the practice green at various pins around the practice green. You can keep score by finishing out the "hole" with your putter, or you can keep score by attributing points to every shot you get inside a certain distance to the pin. IIRC LSW recommends using your handicap as a guide for how close you should be able to get consistently on short game shots. 

Many thanks - very helpful.

Edited June 25, 2018 by alleztom

[lastings]

well...    I have an update.     I have found some improvement.  

I have basically moved to a Jason Day chipping style, where I basically don't move my arms or hinge my wrists.    I figured this would be my best approach to getting something even remotely consistent, and then once I've gotten to the point where I don't chunk or blade anymore, try to add to it a little.     I've been to the range to work on this 5 times, and played 2 rounds.    in those two rounds, I have gotten up and down 5 of 11 and 3 of 10 times, for an up-and-down percentage of 38%!     admittedly, 2 rounds (21 chips) is not a large sample size, but the early returns are pretty positive.  

additionally, all 21 chips have ended up on the green.   I know that should be expected, but prior to these two rounds, I have had at least 1 chip that was duffed short or bladed over the green.   

also, this new chipping approach has added some new shots to my arsenal.   specifically, an 8-iron runner that is comfortable up to about 90 yards.   I haven't had the chance to use it on the course yet, but it's been pretty great at the range.   

 

[David in FL]

5 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Agree with this post so long as there’s an empty spot in the bag and you have limited potential.

What types of short game shots does a chipper not work for?

All of us have limited potential.    

I'd also argue that it's silly to think that you need to "give up any hope of improving" to put a chipper in the bag.  Adding a chipper will help a lot of players immediately, but doesn't mean that they can't simultaneously work to improve other aspects of their game...including other short game aspects, while using the chipper in those situations where it excels.

Really, the only shot a chipper is useful for is the good old chip and run.  When doing that with a putting type action, as recommended so many times here, it makes for an easier shot because the length and lie of the club replicates those of a putter.  A chipper is a poor club out of the sand, or anywhere you would want to open the face to gain additional loft.  It's also poor for hitting intentionally spinny little chips/pitches.  

It's great for all those times you think to yourself, "damn, I'd really like to putt this, if I were just a little closer to the green" though...

I know that I'm a lone voice in the wilderness.  I'm ok with that.   

[Buckeyebowman]

12 hours ago, alleztom said:

Before this thread got hijacked with chipper debate - does anyone know any good drills to test this? What would be a good way to practice pitch/chipping in a way which replicates match scenarios? I'm interested in what people do because I want to get better at this. Last lesson coach told me I had the long game of an 8 and short game of a 25 😱

I used to routinely shank short pitches and chips. My buddy spotted me just kind of "flipping" the club behind me instead of making a proper backswing that started out on the backline of the shot.

I'd just throw the club behind my back and throw the hosel at the ball! No wonder I did what I did!

Now, I hit much more effective pitches and chips, but I still have to remind myself of how to start the club back.If I don't, I'm back to shanking!

[Shindig]

13 hours ago, alleztom said:

Before this thread got hijacked with chipper debate - does anyone know any good drills to test this? What would be a good way to practice pitch/chipping in a way which replicates match scenarios? I'm interested in what people do because I want to get better at this. Last lesson coach told me I had the long game of an 8 and short game of a 25 😱

Have you considered getting a Game Golf?  That has really helped me to identify weak and strong points.

[alleztom]

21 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Your coach didn’t give you any drills?

The link in the 2nd post of this topic has a lot of good information.

I've had a think about what you meant @JonMA1 - and I think there is a difference here. Coach gave me pointers, tips and video which are quite similar to link in 2nd post. However - I was asking for different ways/scenarios to practice the technique. How do other people do short game practice so I can try and get better as efficiently as possible using this pitching technique. I think we may have been talking across each other.

8 hours ago, Shindig said:

Have you considered getting a Game Golf?  That has really helped me to identify weak and strong points.

It is on a long list of gadgets - but I know what weak and strong points are already 😔

21 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Your coach didn’t give you any drills?

The link in the 2nd post of this topic has a lot of good information.

I've had a think about what you meant @JonMA1 - and I think there is a difference here. Coach gave me pointers, tips and video which are quite similar to link in 2nd post. However - I was asking for different ways/scenarios to practice the technique. How do other people do short game practice so I can try and get better as efficiently as possible using this pitching technique. I think we may have been talking across each other.

[boogielicious]

16 minutes ago, alleztom said:

I've had a think about what you meant @JonMA1 - and I think there is a difference here. Coach gave me pointers, tips and video which are quite similar to link in 2nd post. However - I was asking for different ways/scenarios to practice the technique. How do other people do short game practice so I can try and get better as efficiently as possible using this pitching technique. I think we may have been talking across each other.

It is on a long list of gadgets - but I know what weak and strong points are already 😔

I've had a think about what you meant @JonMA1 - and I think there is a difference here. Coach gave me pointers, tips and video which are quite similar to link in 2nd post. However - I was asking for different ways/scenarios to practice the technique. How do other people do short game practice so I can try and get better as efficiently as possible using this pitching technique. I think we may have been talking across each other.

For Chipping and Pitching, I practice two ways. The first is getting to know the technique and seeing the results. I treat chipping and pitching in a similar manner with the exception in a chip, I don't hinge as much and sort of hold the finish. Pitching is like the thread below.

So for practice, I start with my 54 wedge and three balls. Chips fly lower and check up more because they have more spin. A chip also contacts the ball and ground at the same time and is a bit unforgiving compared to a pitch. For technique, I want the feel that my hip turn moves the club and not my hands/arms. For the chip, I hold the finish. So hinge, hip turn, hold.

I do the following.

1. chip to a pin 5 yards away from three different lies, fringe, light rough, heavy rough. For heavy rough, it will require more energy for the same distance, so quicker hip turn.
2. Chip to 10 yards with same lies.
3. Chip to 20 yards with same lies.

Now repeat with pitches. For the pitch, more hinge and don't hold the finish, but the same 'hip turn moves the club' feel. You can basically just hinge your hands to let's say 90 degrees, keep your hands inside your hips, then rotate to get the ball to go 5 yards. Faster rotation results in more distance.

Sometimes I repeat with different clubs, PW, 58 and GW.

After the technique practice, about 10-15 minutes, I play "One Ball". Basically, I pick a pin, toss a ball off the green or onto the fringe. Then I try to get up and down from there. I pick a chip or pitch by the situation and chose the club by the distance or lie. Example, if it is on a steep up slope, I will go with a lower lofted club like a PW, 9 or 8 iron.

I try to play different holes with up and downhill lies with the pin being uphill, downhill and side hill. If you play on a normal practice green, you can just rotate around the green to different holes and play all different kinds of situations. 

If I am just doing short game, I can play this for 30 minutes. If I am just warming up before a round, I spend 5-10 on technique and 5-10 with one ball, but skip the putting. I putt separately.

Hope this helps. It can be a fun practice.

 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

13 hours ago, boogielicious said:

For Chipping and Pitching, I practice two ways. The first is getting to know the technique and seeing the results. I treat chipping and pitching in a similar manner with the exception in a chip, I don't hinge as much and sort of hold the finish. Pitching is like the thread below.

 I want the feel that my hip turn moves the club and not my hands/arms. For the chip, I hold the finish. So hinge, hip turn, hold.

 

 

Great point! Too many guys forget about the lower body on short chips and pitches. You have to keep that moving! This is one of my major problems with these shots, especially my mid-range pitches.

[cooke119]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 9:48 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

OK, to contribute to this discussion I have never owned a "chipper". Have used a buddies chipper a time or two. It felt tinny and cheap!

If I want a chip to start low and run up to the hole, I'll just take a lower lofted iron out of my set.What's wrong with that? I love playing the bump and run!

I learned that shot early on, when my highest lofted club was a 9 iron!

I'm with you, unless I have to go over a bunker I use my 8 iron, (while I work on getting my chipping down), even out of the rough. I use a putting stroke and bump and run it. If I have to go over a bunker I have found I have to use a 52* gap wedge. If I use a SW or LW I usually end up in the bunker. I am good with a SW out of a trap as long as I follow through with my stroke. I'm very inconsistent with a wedge off a tight lie but I'm working at it.

[Used2PlayALot]

Just practice that shot hundreds of times.

Do you have a place where you can do that.

Practice is everything.

[fburns]

I am a fellow short game struggler. I have found some limited success however and am optimistic that I am on the right track. I went back to Siegleman's book and realized that I was not cupping my wrist and was way inside of the plane and at times I swayed off of the ball. I was working on those things when  I came across a great online video class at Be Better Golf with a short game video course by Tim Yelverton that is outstanding (https://www.bebettergolf.net/) I can't recommend it more highly. Hope this helps you. It has helped me.

[Buckeyebowman]

7 hours ago, fburns said:

I am a fellow short game struggler. I have found some limited success however and am optimistic that I am on the right track. I went back to Siegleman's book and realized that I was not cupping my wrist and was way inside of the plane and at times I swayed off of the ball. I was working on those things when  I came across a great online video class at Be Better Golf with a short game video course by Tim Yelverton that is outstanding (https://www.bebettergolf.net/) I can't recommend it more highly. Hope this helps you. It has helped me.

Interesting. My buddy spotted this in my chipping and pitching swing. He said it looked like I was getting tired, but I just kind of flipped the club behind me with my hands and arms and got nothing else in my body involved in the swing! I had the tendency to shank shots, because I took the club back way inside and was, basically, throwing the hosel at the ball.

Once I practiced taking the club back on the target line, and keeping the lower body and hips moving, the shanks went away! Also, my distance control improved. Even with the bad swing, I'd still send one toward the green every so often, but God only knows where it would end up, although a good guess would be short!

[The Recreational Golfer]

To the OP -- get some lessons on these shots. That's the solution.

[Hacker James]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 10:54 AM, David in FL said:

 

I know that I'm a lone voice in the wilderness.  I'm ok with that.   

You are NOT alone, David