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2018 PGA Championship at Bellerive

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9 hours ago, brocks said:

Wow.  I realize that the quality of golf should be the first priority, but surely the PGA could find a high quality course that's a little more fan friendly.

30 minutes is about what the shuttle to Shinnecock was, and that wasn't too bad for me.

(It might have been closer to 20-25 minutes, but I don't think an extra 5-10 minutes would have soured me.)

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55 minutes ago, jamo said:

30 minutes is about what the shuttle to Shinnecock was, and that wasn't too bad for me.

(It might have been closer to 20-25 minutes, but I don't think an extra 5-10 minutes would have soured me.)

Sometimes these shuttle times can be off when route is congested. The Shinnecock shuttle took an hour for me, that was early morning on a weekday during rush hour and they routed through a bottleneck road. I dunno about the PGA situation, maybe they handled it better.

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August in St. Louis will be hot and humid, I presume?  I am looking forward to this last major for 2018.  Spieth looking for his career grand slam; Fowler still looking for the first major victory; Rory and Tiger coming into form.  Hopefully, DJ will have a better luck than the Open.

I am hoping for one of the following to win: Fowler, Rory, and Tiger (and not necessarily in that order).

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7 hours ago, jamo said:

30 minutes is about what the shuttle to Shinnecock was, and that wasn't too bad for me.

(It might have been closer to 20-25 minutes, but I don't think an extra 5-10 minutes would have soured me.)

I'm heading up to St. Louis Sunday, the 5th. My son got us weekly passes. Well, this should be interesting since my son's house is about 15 minutes from the course. We'll probably have to drive further to get a shuttle than just figure out a way to get to the course directly. Maybe we can ride bicycles...

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From STL Today - https://www.pga.com/events/pgachampionship/2018-pga-championship-what-know-you-go

Quote

St. Louis County, state, local and PGA Championship officials urged golf fans and Town and Country residents to prepare for road closures Aug. 6-12 that will affect two major streets near Bellerive Country Club, 12925 Ladue Road.

Mason Road between West Walling Drive and Conway Road will be closed primarily from 5 a.m. to 9 p.m. from Aug. 6 through Aug. 12. Ladue Road will also be closed during those dates and times between Route 141 and Interstate 270.

“We keep residents, fans, players and the volunteers’ safety in mind,” Capt. Bryan Ludwig of the St. Louis County Police Department said in a briefing Wednesday. “With that we developed what we feel is a transportation and parking plan that works for this event.”

There will be no public parking or drop-off at Bellerive Country Club, officials stressed. “That goes for players, caddies, volunteers, everyone,” Ludwig said. “I think it’s important that the public understands that.”

There also won’t be any pedestrian or bicycle access to the tournament, in part because many of the streets around the course have no sidewalks. 

“You won’t have access,” he continued. “Even if you’re not coming to the tournament, you want to make alternate plans now to avoid that area if possible.”

Ludwig and Barry Deach, the 100th PGA Championship director, encouraged fans to read the spectator guide that has been sent to people who purchased tickets. The guide is available online at: https://www.pga.com/events/pgachampionship/2018-pga-championship-what-know-you-go

Fans can catch a shuttle at the rideshare drop-off location at Westminster Christian Academy, 800 Maryville Center Drive in Chesterfield. The tournament will also offer complimentary general public parking at Fenton Logistics Park, 1050 Dodge Drive.

 

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This reminds me of the first time the US open came to Bethpage Black. The course is in my hometown, about 1/4 mile from my home.  All the local businesses, restaurants and bars on Main St. in the village of Farmingdale were so pumped at the idea of a couple hundred thousand visitors that week. Well, it didn't quite work out that way. Everyone had to park at either the SUNY Farmingdale lot or Jones Beach ( app. 3 and 10 miles away respectively) and were bussed to and from the course. Fans came and left, never setting foot anywhere near the village  To add insult to injury, a nor'easter on Friday, the day of the second round flooded the course, and not only the Black Course, but some holes on the adjoining Green (corporate tents) and Yellow (Bus drop offs, and Souvenir stands) were left virtually unplayable for almost a year, some places longer due to all those people trekking thru mud. It was a windfall for the State Parks Dept., and the USGA, but the local golfers who played there not only saw their courses ruined, we got huge increases in Green Fees, because the Park was now home to a "Open Course"..

Edited by GrandStranded

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Is this the route?

IMG_3962.PNG

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On 7/25/2018 at 7:37 PM, DeadMan said:

It's a recipe for target, robotic golf. Hit it to one specific spot again and again and again. It's boring. I know it's American golf, but I'm just bored of watching it.

Ditto. Have been for a while now at pretty much every course bar Augusta.

On 7/26/2018 at 2:02 AM, Club Rat said:

I also heard today that they have course for members last week AND the members have been playing temp greens for over a month.
Attending the event will require shuttling from areas which are a 30 minute ride.
Volunteers will shuttle from a closer area about 15-20 minutes away.

The local news has announced NO public parking within 2 miles.
Our Club volunteers will be working Hole #2.

And several Friends/Members have access to Corporate Sponsor Tents. 

I'll be watching on the big screen in my easy chair at home with a cold brewski in hand … :whistle:

It's not an easy walk to different hole locations and several holes are nearly impassable with large crowds.
Unless you show up at the crack of dawn and head out to the outside perimeter of the course, moving to different holes will be challenging. 

Well this sounds rubbish.

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On 7/26/2018 at 2:42 PM, Rkrider99 said:

I'm heading up to St. Louis Sunday, the 5th. My son got us weekly passes. Well, this should be interesting since my son's house is about 15 minutes from the course. We'll probably have to drive further to get a shuttle than just figure out a way to get to the course directly. Maybe we can ride bicycles...

Not sure if the bicycles comment is rhetorical, but this is from the official pga.com page:

Quote

WALK OR BIKE TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP

There will be NO pedestrian and/or bicycles allowed on Ladue Road from I-270 to Rte. 141, and Mason Road from W. Walling Drive and Conway Road, during daylight hours due to anticipated heavy bus shuttle and hang tag permitted vehicles. Where permanent sidewalks exist, spectators are directed to follow sidewalks to existing designated crosswalks at stop lights and/or stop signs. Due to closure of roads and resident hang tag restrictions, there is no vehicle parking within 2 miles of Bellerive Country Club. All spectators are instructed to follow either Rideshare and/or directions to the PGA General Public Parking lot at the Fenton Logistics Park.

Ladue below, just one accident is going to cause headaches. And I see why no pedestrians or bikes.

Screen Shot 2018-07-29 at 12.22.39 PM.png

Looks like it's let's play squeeze everyone into a salmon can. Again and again. 

Not familiar with the area, but it looks like Conway is gonna get hammered. Good thing those two schools are not in session. Gonna force myself to stop here, I get too obsessed with traffic patterns. 😜 I bet some local residents aren't gonna get the memo, too busy, or whatever, and not get the placard to let them drive in the vicinity of their own home and there will be some tempers flaring. I've had film shoots on my old block and those movie bastards wouldn't let me into my own apartment block, I f**ing live here you nitwit.

Screen Shot 2018-07-29 at 12.32.16 PM.png

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Hello, I'm new here. I will be attending on Friday. So I'm guessing it's best to get a Lyft/Uber driver and stake out one of the holes. This is my first tournament so my question is this, if you stake out a hole would you go tee box, green or 290 yards out? Thanks in advance.  

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1 hour ago, ParDanger said:

So I'm guessing it's best to get a Lyft/Uber driver

No, the rode access will be closed to the course in a two mile radius to vehicles and pedestrians.
The only access will be shuttle service.

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19 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Not sure if the bicycles comment is rhetorical, but this is from the official pga.com page:

............

😜 I bet some local residents aren't gonna get the memo, too busy, or whatever, and not get the placard to let them drive in the vicinity of their own home and there will be some tempers flaring. I've had film shoots on my old block and those movie bastards wouldn't let me into my own apartment block, I f**ing live here you nitwit.

 

 

 

It was somewhat rhetorical. I was just trying to figure out the justification of taking a 30-45 minute trip to get somewhere where I can get in 15 minutes directly. It's going to take 15 minutes to get to Westminster Academy, and then another 15 minutes or so on the shuttle, not counting the time to wait for the shuttle.

My son told me he has a friend that lives 2 blocks from the course, and told him we were more than welcome to come park in his driveway. But, based on the above, I don't think that will work either. I guess it all depends on if we can get to the house without taking any of the roads that are closed.

The other question I would have is the weather warnings. Take shelter? Where? You won't have a car that you can go hide in.

Sounds like I'm whining, and I probably am, but I'm still happy to be going.

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Big boy track with a few brutal par 4's where Tiger is going to have to hit driver?... 

I love the way he's clawing back his game...but umm..no... :-$ 

Id be surprised if he finished top 20 in that one. If he even makes the cut. 

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So scratch what I said earlier in the thread. The scorecard they had up last week was incorrect. The PGA did change it to a par-70. So now I do think it will play a lot more difficult as two of the par-5s were converted to par-4s. And the two par-5s play 600 yards (8 & 17). You also have some long par-3s there. Of course, how difficult will depend on how thick the rough is there and how fast the greens will play. I doubt the greens will play that fast given the humidity expected. Heat is going to play a major factor, though. Temps expected in the 90s next week in St. Louis. Reminds me of Southern Hills 2007 when the heat was sweltering.

Here's the updated full course hole-by-hole:

https://www.pga.com/events/pgachampionship/pga-championship-2018-hole-hole-tour-bellerive

Edited by ChrisP

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10 hours ago, ChrisP said:

So scratch what I said earlier in the thread. The scorecard they had up last week was incorrect. The PGA did change it to a par-70. So now I do think it will play a lot more difficult as two of the par-5s were converted to par-4s.

I hope I don't come across as argumentative, but how does this make it more difficult?  In my view, the ideal par listing for a professional tournament should be nearest integer to the expected score on the hole.  That doesn't mean the expected score needs to be a par, or that par must be protected, or anything like that.  

I certainly don't understand how it makes the test tougher.  A 500 yard par-4 and the same hole, with the same tee placements and pin positions and so on, but called a par-5, has the same difficulty unless that number causes people to play it differently.  I doubt too many players, especially those who will be in contention, consider anything in their gameplan for a hole other than how to achieve the lowest score they can.

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12 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Big boy track with a few brutal par 4's where Tiger is going to have to hit driver?... 

I love the way he's clawing back his game...but umm..no... :-$ 

Yeah, like, oh, I don't know… Firestone? He's only won there eight times. Narrow fairways. Thick rough. Gotta hit a lot of drivers.

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2 hours ago, Shindig said:

I hope I don't come across as argumentative, but how does this make it more difficult?  In my view, the ideal par listing for a professional tournament should be nearest integer to the expected score on the hole.  That doesn't mean the expected score needs to be a par, or that par must be protected, or anything like that.  

I certainly don't understand how it makes the test tougher.  A 500 yard par-4 and the same hole, with the same tee placements and pin positions and so on, but called a par-5, has the same difficulty unless that number causes people to play it differently.  I doubt too many players, especially those who will be in contention, consider anything in their gameplan for a hole other than how to achieve the lowest score they can.

If all they do is change the number, sure.  But typically when they convert a par 5 to a par 4, they shorten it. 

In an extreme example, suppose it's a 600-yard par five with a creek in front of the green.  Pretty much everybody lays up.  Then they take 50 yards off it and call it a par four.  Now the short hitters still have to lay up, and even the long hitters have to lay up if their drive goes into the rough.  But even so, the reduced length makes the third shot easier, so the scoring average on the hole goes down a few tenths.

But long, straight hitters can now reach it in two.  So it's a more difficult hole, even if the scoring average on it goes down a few tenths, because length and accuracy are more important than before.  It's not just that it's harder to make par, it's that it separates the excellent players from the good players, just like a good par three hole can do.

That's the theory in general, anyway.  Whether it's the case at Bellerive, I don't know.

Edited by brocks

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