Carry or Push?

[Pretzel]

With a good quality push cart the cart will always be better. If you rent a cart from the course you're likely to be better off carrying since many rentals are old and the wheels have heavy resistance (in my area at least).

I personally prefer carrying to pushing simply because it's what I'm used to and it means fewer things to keep in the trunk of my car, but I recognize that push carts are a much better option in terms of energy expenditure and personal health.

[mcanadiens]

3 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

With a good quality push cart the cart will always be better. If you rent a cart from the course you're likely to be better off carrying since many rentals are old and the wheels have heavy resistance (in my area at least).

Even the beater two-wheeled rentals I used to use beat carrying in my opinion, but getting a decent four-wheel job was a major improvement. 

I love hitting a decent tee shot and being able to use a slope to let my cart run downhill in front of me. For at least 40 or 50 yards I can walk like a big shot, not carrying or pushing a thing.

 

 

[amished]

I only have three problems with my pushcart: my bigger bag doesn't sit extremely well on it, it's another thing that takes up space in my vehicle even when folded up, and if I'm limited for time on an open course I'd rather get the holes in rather than the exercise (so then I ride).  I've ordered a smaller bag that should work better for how it fits on the cart, or carry around if my heart so desires, but I do like to push if I have the cart available.  

For personal preference, I'd rather carry than pull.  The sort of rotation while walking doesn't do well for the types of health issues I've had.

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

When I was 15 my dad was the dumbest guy I knew ....Now that I’m 20...I can’t believe the knowledge he’s gained in just 5 years.....

Bwahahaha.. QFT!

[phan52]

I've done both multiple times in recent weeks and I much prefer carrying my bag. Pushing a cart requires me to walk completely around green complexes while I can walk right across a green to get closer to the next tee. It is much easier to carry on my course, particularly on a few of the hills where you have to stay on the cart paths with the push carts instead of some direct stairs and it is a much longer walk.

[JGus]

I have used a push cart for many years now, but I actually carried my bag last night and honestly it felt good to carry my bag.  I'm sure i'll go back to my push cart, but may carry every once in a while.

[Pretzel]

27 minutes ago, phan52 said:

I've done both multiple times in recent weeks and I much prefer carrying my bag. Pushing a cart requires me to walk completely around green complexes while I can walk right across a green to get closer to the next tee. It is much easier to carry on my course, particularly on a few of the hills where you have to stay on the cart paths with the push carts instead of some direct stairs and it is a much longer walk.

It's unfortunate that so many courses have these restrictions about push carts on the green. In Australia golfers have a strong push cart culture and are encouraged to roll their carts over the greens because they found firmer greens are less likely to be damaged than softer (and more recently or heavily watered) fringes and fairways. They also have been found in many cases to improve the quality of the green by smoothing out spike marks and poorly repaired ball marks. Walking on the green, especially with a bag on your back, is ironically far more likely to damage the surface because of increased pressure (smaller surface area from the spikes vs wheels and much more weight from a person vs clubs).

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

When I was 15 my dad was the dumbest guy I knew ....Now that I’m 20...I can’t believe the knowledge he’s gained in just 5 years.....

20?!  That makes you the oldest guy on this forum.

17 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

It's unfortunate that so many courses have these restrictions about push carts on the green. In Australia golfers have a strong push cart culture and are encouraged to roll their carts over the greens because they found firmer greens are less likely to be damaged than softer (and more recently or heavily watered) fringes and fairways. They also have been found in many cases to improve the quality of the green by smoothing out spike marks and poorly repaired ball marks. Walking on the green, especially with a bag on your back, is ironically far more likely to damage the surface because of increased pressure (smaller surface area from the spikes vs wheels and much more weight from a person vs clubs).

Yes, the PSI (pounds per square inch) from a shoe and especially from the heel with 160 pounds+ in that shoe is far more PSI than the broad, soft wheels of a push cart carrying maybe 40 pounds.  Just don't turn your cart when on the green.

[ChetlovesMer]

39 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

It's unfortunate that so many courses have these restrictions about push carts on the green. In Australia golfers have a strong push cart culture and are encouraged to roll their carts over the greens because they found firmer greens are less likely to be damaged than softer (and more recently or heavily watered) fringes and fairways. They also have been found in many cases to improve the quality of the green by smoothing out spike marks and poorly repaired ball marks. Walking on the green, especially with a bag on your back, is ironically far more likely to damage the surface because of increased pressure (smaller surface area from the spikes vs wheels and much more weight from a person vs clubs).

Dang, I never thought about that. But it kind of makes sense. 

[billchao]

4 hours ago, TN94z said:

Unless your pull cart is right beside you with your arm hanging straight down, I don't see how your shoulder can't be in an awkward position with a pull cart.

I grip the handle with an overhand grip so that my shoulder is externally rotated as I pull the cart. My elbow points back behind me as I pull. Would you say a chin-up puts your shoulder in an awkward position? It’s pretty much the same shoulder position, only without the bicep flexion so the forearm hangs down and slightly behind you.

I could see an underhand grip causing someone to internally rotate the shoulder causing impingement issues, but that’s not how I do it, nor would I ever do it like that because it’s just a less efficient way to pull something.

[Darkfrog]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Yes, the PSI (pounds per square inch) from a shoe and especially from the heel with 160 pounds+ in that shoe is far more PSI than the broad, soft wheels of a push cart carrying maybe 40 pounds.

I've never understood the no push carts on greens concept. Like you said, resulting pressure from the weight of a bag of clubs plus the pushcart, distributed over 3 or 4 wide soft wheels is much less compared to a 150-200 lb person walking across the green, with their entire weight on one foot each "step motion", and the pressure on the planted foot transitions from heel, to ball of foot, to toes each step.  

[Vinsk]

7 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

I've never understood the no push carts on greens concept. Like you said, resulting pressure from the weight of a bag of clubs plus the pushcart, distributed over 3 or 4 wide soft wheels is much less compared to a 150-200 lb person walking across the green, with their entire weight on one foot each "step motion", and the pressure on the planted foot transitions from heel, to ball of foot, to toes each step.  

It’s probably the pivoting of the cart that may damage the greens?

[Darkfrog]

44 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It’s probably the pivoting of the cart that may damage the greens?

Possibly. Someone walking on the green could pivot around on their foot, like if they dropped a head cover or something, which seems like it would do the same or worse to the green. The greens where I play most of my golf are hardly pristine, so I'm just happy when people remember to repair their ball marks.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, billchao said:

I grip the handle with an overhand grip so that my shoulder is externally rotated as I pull the cart. My elbow points back behind me as I pull. Would you say a chin-up puts your shoulder in an awkward position? It’s pretty much the same shoulder position, only without the bicep flexion so the forearm hangs down and slightly behind you.

Bill, not really something you can argue man. I've never seen a study comparing push vs. pull carts that says even "both are fine." They'll all say push carts are better.

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/health/should_golfers_push_pull_or_carry_their_clubs

You can find others. If you had a harness, maybe it wouldn't be too bad, but obviously you don't. 🙂

[billchao]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

Bill, not really something you can argue man. I've never seen a study comparing push vs. pull carts that says even "both are fine." They'll all say push carts are better.

https://www.mytpi.com/articles/health/should_golfers_push_pull_or_carry_their_clubs

You can find others. If you had a harness, maybe it wouldn't be too bad, but obviously you don't. 🙂

I've never said push isn't better, just that pull isn't as bad as you guys are making it out to be.

The article you linked doesn't even do a very good job of saying pulling is bad.

Quote

The main difference that you will notice is when pulling, you are creating a twisting effect on your spine which causes muscle imbalances

That one is easy, don't pull the whole time with only one hand. I certainly don't.

The picture they use to show this though is kind of lame, though:

Like that's not posed at all. What happens when that guy has to take a step forward? He's not going to do it with his shoulders and hips all twisted around like that.

I can even make the argument that the asymmetrical load helps strengthen your core because you're forced to engage your muscles on the opposite side of your body for stability. Lots of exercises are performed with weights loaded asymmetrically for this exact reason.

Quote

and a lot more pressure placed on your shoulders, elbows, and knees (leading to an increased chance of injury)

Increased chance of injury != injury. Playing golf increases my chance of injury. Strength training increases my chance of injury.

Pulling a golf cart is not a heavy enough load where I need to worry about giving myself a hernia like I would if I were to do a heavy dumbbell row.

---

Like I said, I'm not saying pushing is not superior. I've been thinking about getting a push cart for years for a number of reasons, but not one of them is "risk of injury due to pulling."

Still beats carrying.

[RickK]

Pushing or pulling...don't care. Never liked either one. I carried my clubs for years.  Would still do it if my back and knees would cooperate with me.  Still, easier or not, pass completely on push/pull carts.  It is just a personal thing for me.  Never liked doing it, would not do it today. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, billchao said:

I've never said push isn't better, just that pull isn't as bad as you guys are making it out to be.

I don't think I've attributed a "degree" to it. I've only said it's not better than or the same as pushing.

2 hours ago, billchao said:

That one is easy, don't pull the whole time with only one hand. I certainly don't.

It's still putting stress on your shoulder in an awkward position, not to mention that you aren't really tracking where the wheels are going. When I was a kid, we only had pull carts, and I knew two kids who hurt their wrists when the bag would hit a hole and start to tip or something and they tried to straighten it up reflexively.

2 hours ago, billchao said:

I can even make the argument that the asymmetrical load helps strengthen your core because you're forced to engage your muscles on the opposite side of your body for stability.

No, you couldn't. You're not supposed to be using a cart for "strengthening your core."

The simple point is that your shoulder isn't really in a great spot when your arm is pulling a weight behind you. That's what others meant when they were saying it puts your shoulder in an awkward position.

2 hours ago, billchao said:

Increased chance of injury != injury. Playing golf increases my chance of injury. Strength training increases my chance of injury.

Poor logic there Bill.

Playing golf with a pull cart injury odds > playing golf with a push cart. Nobody is saying a push cart eliminates "chance of injury."

[billchao]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I don't think I've attributed a "degree" to it.

No but the degree does matter, because if it's fairly insignificant, it's not really worth bringing up as a point of discussion.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I've only said it's not better than or the same as pushing.

And I have never said anything to the contrary.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

It's still putting stress on your shoulder in an awkward position

I still disagree with this.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

not to mention that you aren't really tracking where the wheels are going.

You can and should be, though I agree it is more difficult to. But this isn't what I disagree with. I never said pulling is better or even equal to pushing.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

No, you couldn't. You're not supposed to be using a cart for "strengthening your core."

Bollocks. (I always wanted to use that word )

If the TPI article is going to cite developing muscular imbalance from pulling a golf bag as if that's going to build up your muscles to a point where that can be an issue, then I absolutely can make the argument that the muscles on the other side of your body are going to be actively trying to stabilize you. You're not going to be walking around with your shoulders and hips twisted behind without doing something to square up as you walk.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

The simple point is that your shoulder isn't really in a great spot when your arm is pulling a weight behind you. That's what others meant when they were saying it puts your shoulder in an awkward position.

This is really the only point we're arguing and I wholeheartedly disagree. I pull carts all the time. If it's not my golf bag, it's my tool bag, and sometimes with an additional bucket of tools loaded on top of it. Up to 80lbs of tools at times, if not more. That's a lot more stress on my shoulder than a golf bag and if were an awkward position, you'd think I'd hurt my shoulder a lot more. The last two times I hurt my shoulders was when I was putting my extension ladder back on top of my roof racks, and when I was practicing golf. Both times it was my right shoulder that was hurt, the side I don't pull my tools with.

It's not an awkward position. Stand up straight, supinate your forearm until your palm faces out, allow your shoulder to externally rotate as needed. Straighten your arm behind you. That's it. Or make an arm circle like you're doing a backstroke, stop short of 360°. It's well within a perfectly natural range of motion for the shoulder. It's the same shoulder position you get into when you do a back lever, which also applies a much higher amount of force on your body than pulling a golf cart.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Poor logic there Bill.

Playing golf with a pull cart injury odds > playing golf with a push cart. Nobody is saying a push cart eliminates "chance of injury."

No, it's a counter to the way they wrote it in the article. "Leading to an increased chance of injury" can be interpreted as, "oh I better not do this because I'll hurt myself." But it's also technically true if pulling a cart increases the chance of injury by one iota. It's ambiguous enough to be misleading, and if the chance of injury is closer to the latter, it's not a point worth considering.