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Ben Crane Intentionally Drives Wrong Fairway

billchao

By billchao
in Tour Talk

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Note: This thread is 3873 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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Spitfisher Great Member

Spitfisher

Posted
Posted
It's fine, well thought out. What would people be saying if it failed miserably. It was well within the rules, no white stakes. Where I do have a problem is 6-8 spectators removing ( or helping to) remove an 800 lb loose impediment

saturday Great Member

saturday

Posted
Posted
I am curious though if he had his caddie look out to make sure he's not driving into oncoming players. I wouldn't recommend this to amateurs but gotta hand it to him, he thought outside the box....... and hole...

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MacDutch Great Member

MacDutch

Posted
Posted
Well played Ben Crane.  No where in the rules does it say that you have to play the hole as it is designed. If the course leaves an opening, then take it. As long has he was careful in not hitting into other golfers, then I see no issue with it.  If they want to stop it, plant a tree for next year.

Nothing wrong here. I do the same on a course I play sometimes (on purpose)

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Chilli Dipper Great Member

Chilli Dipper

Posted
Posted
I am curious though if he had his caddie look out to make sure he's not driving into oncoming players. I wouldn't recommend this to amateurs but gotta hand it to him, he thought outside the box....... and hole...

Ben didn't hit onto the fifth fairway, as the original article noted, but the twelfth, which runs parallel to the sixth in the same direction. The caddie most likely called out to the players on the twelfth tee and suggested they hold back.

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ghalfaire Great Member

ghalfaire

Posted
Posted

Although it's unorthodox and pretty rare to see I have no problem with it. Was listening to people on Sirius today freaking out over it.. it's not against the rules.


Probably next year there will be a tall tree in the gap or the left will be OB.  But certainly showed some creativity on Ben's part.

Butch


jsgolfer Super Member

jsgolfer

Posted
Posted

Safety OB is lazy course design. If you don't want someone to undertake a shot, make it so they physically can't or have no benefit to. I also think it winds up being unnecessarily penal in a lot of cases, but that's farther down my list of issues with it.

I so agree with this.  You can't have OB when your in the bounds of the course.  Out of Bounds id for out of bounds of the course.

-Jerry

Driver: Titleist 913 D3 (9.5 degree) – Aldila RIP 60-2.9-Stiff; Callaway Mini-Driver Kura Kage 60g shaft - 12 degree Hybrids: Callway X2 Hot Pro - 16 degree & 23 degree – Pro-Shaft; Callway X2 Hot – 5H & 6H Irons: Titleist 714 AP2 7 thru AW with S300 Dynamic Gold Wedges: Titleist Vokey GW (54 degree), Callaway MackDaddy PM Grind SW (58 degree) Putter: Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Heavy Balls: Titleist Pro V1x & Snell MyTourBall

"Golf is the closest game to the game we call life. You get bad breaks from good shots; you get good breaks from bad shots but you have to play the ball where it lies."- Bobby Jones

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luu5 Dedicated Member

luu5

Posted
Posted

I so agree with this.  You can't have OB when your in the bounds of the course.  Out of Bounds id for out of bounds of the course.

I am not so sure about this. Internal OB does not "look good", but other than that it is like normal OB, "you are not supposed to go there". Of course it may make course much tighter, but then play safer...


jsgolfer Super Member

jsgolfer

Posted
Posted

I am not so sure about this. Internal OB does not "look good", but other than that it is like normal OB, "you are not supposed to go there". Of course it may make course much tighter, but then play safer...

I guess we'll agree it looks awful having OB stakes between two holes but only OB is for one of them.

However, the course I played in Maine, Hermon Meadows has two holes with internal OB.  The Par 5 Number 4 and the Par 5 15.  During a college tournament for the Husson Invitational, they were required to remove the stakes for the tournament.

-Jerry

Driver: Titleist 913 D3 (9.5 degree) – Aldila RIP 60-2.9-Stiff; Callaway Mini-Driver Kura Kage 60g shaft - 12 degree Hybrids: Callway X2 Hot Pro - 16 degree & 23 degree – Pro-Shaft; Callway X2 Hot – 5H & 6H Irons: Titleist 714 AP2 7 thru AW with S300 Dynamic Gold Wedges: Titleist Vokey GW (54 degree), Callaway MackDaddy PM Grind SW (58 degree) Putter: Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Heavy Balls: Titleist Pro V1x & Snell MyTourBall

"Golf is the closest game to the game we call life. You get bad breaks from good shots; you get good breaks from bad shots but you have to play the ball where it lies."- Bobby Jones

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RussUK Great Member

RussUK

Posted
Posted

Just another case of a sports person taking advantage of a potential grey area in the rules. Happens all the time in things like F1. How long before the R&A; and USGA propsoe a rule that states "golfers tee shot must be aimed at the correct fairway"?

Now i cant see a major problem but its a little unsportsman like

Russ, from "sunny" Yorkshire = :-( 

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newtogolf Incredible Member

newtogolf

Posted
Posted

Crane made a great course management decision that was within the rules.  I'd hope he checked prior to hitting his drive that no one was in at risk of getting hit by his ball but beyond that, kudos to him.

Joe Paradiso

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RussUK Great Member

RussUK

Posted
Posted

Crane made a great course management decision that was within the rules.  I'd hope he checked prior to hitting his drive that no one was in at risk of getting hit by his ball but beyond that, kudos to him.

Here's a question. Had he not checked there was no one to hit and he struck an unsuspecting spectator, what action (if any) would have been taken?

Russ, from "sunny" Yorkshire = :-( 

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Lastpick Well Established Member

Lastpick

Posted
Posted

By taking this route, Crain took the hazards designed into the hole, out of play.  It was a good play on his part.  I feel reasonably certain that the course management will do something to discourage this in the future.  If everyone took this path, it would slow down the pace of play IMO.

I think that teeing your ball on a pencil is no longer legal.  There is a maximum length for a tee.  I also think that have the crowd assist you in moving a huge rock is no longer allowed.  I don't think that rock that Tiger moved would meet the current definition of loose impediment.


newtogolf Incredible Member

newtogolf

Posted
Posted

Here's a question. Had he not checked there was no one to hit and he struck an unsuspecting spectator, what action (if any) would have been taken?

I doubt anything since spectators are always at risk of being struck by a ball.  I'm sure his fellow golfers would be upset if he hit into their fairway without warning and might speak to him but I doubt the Tour would do much beyond a wrist slap.

Joe Paradiso

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AmazingWhacker Great Member

AmazingWhacker

Posted
Posted

At least it was Ben Crane.  If it was Tiger, Phil or Rory then chances are the little back-and-forth munis I like to play would become very dangerous places.  Well . .on the other hand, if more golfers started aiming for alternate fairways . .would that mean more or less balls landing in alternate fairways?  Not sure.


Shindig Incredible Member

Shindig

Posted
Posted
I am not so sure about this. Internal OB does not "look good", but other than that it is like normal OB, "you are not supposed to go there". Of course it may make course much tighter, but then play safer...

I think the USGA tries actively to discourage courses from doing this. There are other ways, such as high trees to separate the two holes. [quote name="Lastpick" url="/t/81605/ben-crane-intentionally-drives-wrong-fairway/18#post_1135255"]I think that teeing your ball on a pencil is no longer legal.  There is a maximum length for a tee.  I also think that have the crowd assist you in moving a huge rock is no longer allowed.  I don't think that rock that Tiger moved would meet the current definition of loose impediment. [/quote] Correct. Tiger-moved-a-big-rock-with-help-gate caused the USGA (and R&A;) to revise the definition of loose impediment. What he did was legal when he did it. But sometimes, that's what gets a rule changed -- a highly publicized incident where the rules don't fit together the way the rules committee intends them to. Stewart Cink's DQ a few years ago for raking sand has become a legal move. [quote name="AmazingWhacker" url="/t/81605/ben-crane-intentionally-drives-wrong-fairway/18#post_1135462"]At least it was Ben Crane.  If it was Tiger, Phil or Rory then chances are the little back-and-forth munis I like to play would become very dangerous places.  Well . .on the other hand, if more golfers started aiming for alternate fairways . .would that mean more or less balls landing in alternate fairways?  Not sure.   [/quote] If it's anything like the muni players I see, maybe aiming at adjacent fairways -- especially fairways off to the left -- would improve the percent of fairways hit... that belong to the hole being played! ;-)

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Golfingdad Incredible Member

Golfingdad

Posted
Posted

I think the USGA tries actively to discourage courses from doing this. There are other ways, such as high trees to separate the two holes.

Yup.  A couple of Italian Cypresses (or similar) strategically placed and the problem is solved.

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jlbos83 Well Established Member

jlbos83

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I also think that have the crowd assist you in moving a huge rock is no longer allowed.  I don't think that rock that Tiger moved would meet the current definition of loose impediment.

Correct. Tiger-moved-a-big-rock-with-help-gate caused the USGA (and R&A;) to revise the definition of loose impediment. What he did was legal when he did it.

I had to go look to verify this, because I wanted to make sure that "I saw it on the Internet" doesn't make it true.

One might think the rule should have been changed, have heard that it was changed, or wish that it had been changed, but the loose impediment rule was NOT changed after 1999, and what happened that day would be within the rules tomorrow.  Pertinent Decisions (as of today):

23-1/2

Large Stone Removable Only with Much Effort

Q.A player's ball lies in the rough directly behind a loose stone the size of a watermelon. The stone can be removed only with much effort. Is it a loose impediment which may be removed?

A.Yes. Stones of any size (not solidly embedded) are loose impediments and may be removed, provided removal does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7 ).

23-1/3

Assistance in Removing Large Loose Impediment

Q.May spectators, caddies, fellow-competitors, etc. assist a player in removing a large loose impediment?

A.Yes.

One thing that has changed is that the particular "stone" in question is now clearly embedded, so it is no longer a loose impediment.  It has a plaque on it, though!


turtleback Super Member

turtleback

Posted
Posted

. . .   I also think that have the crowd assist you in moving a huge rock is no longer allowed.  I don't think that rock that Tiger moved would meet the current definition of loose impediment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shindig

Correct. Tiger-moved-a-big-rock-with-help-gate caused the USGA (and R&A;) to revise the definition of loose impediment. What he did was legal when he did it.

Huh?  When did this happen?  What I remember is that there was already a Decision supporting it and the ruling bodies confirmed that the correct decision had been made in Tiger's case.  I am not aware of any subsequent rule changes or Decisions.  As far as I know, not only was what he did legal when he did it, it would still be legal now.  Maybe I am wrong but I would need to see some kind of cite to something.  Certainly the definition of loose impediment in the Rule hasn't changed since before Tiger turned pro to this very day, so I'm not sure what you guys are talking about.  And these Decisions are still in force:

23-1/2

Large Stone Removable Only with Much Effort

Q.A player's ball lies in the rough directly behind a loose stone the size of a watermelon. The stone can be removed only with much effort. Is it a loose impediment which may be removed?

A.Yes. Stones of any size (not solidly embedded) are loose impediments and may be removed, provided removal does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7).

23-1/3

Assistance in Removing Large Loose Impediment

Q.May spectators, caddies, fellow-competitors, etc. assist a player in removing a large loose impediment?

A.Yes.

So I am baffled at both of your comments.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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