Can you really improve more than just a few strokes given enough time and proper practice?

[Lihu]

This assumes you have good instruction as well***.

So, I've often heard from people that once you've been playing a couple years that you will not really improve that much from that point on. I've found this to be somewhat discouraging, and was wondering what the limitation really is? Is it because you won't get a better swing from physical limitations? I am wondering if this is really the case. Some people with decent swings can hit the ball pretty far and still score like crap. Others with crappy swings, can still get the ball into the hole.

Is it some inherent drive to get the ball into the hole "no matter what"? What is it that differentiates someone who aggressively seeks the pin versus the rest of us?

 

 

***You can set the clock to zero once you have an effective instructor no matter how many years you've been playing, then not improve much more after 2 years of this good instruction.

[No Mulligans]

I did.

I went from a 27 to an 18 in less than a year and I had been playing sporadically for over 20 years before that.  

But like for most things there is the law of diminishing returns.  

Quote

 

Diminishing Returns:

any rate of profit, production, benefits, etc., that beyond a certain point fails to increase proportionately with added investment, effort, or skill.

 

 

[Howling Coyote]

I don't believe that.  For me I had bad instruction.  The teacher told me that I was coming over the top and gave a demonstration.  It was an exaggeration and I resolved to prevent that by standing further and further away from the ball.  The farther I stood away from the ball, the more severe my slice became.  Another fault that was left uncorrected, was I had it in my head that the downswing was the same as the backswing, just done in reverse.

PS.  My biggest improvements have been very recent.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Howling Coyote
Adding stuff

[Patch]

My guess is that given enough time, the correct tools, and the correct instruction, a golfer will get as good as they are going to get.

For a few, that might be scratch or better. For others it would be higher single digits. For a bunch more it would be low double digits, and for the rest, higher double digits.

In my opinion, person's genetic profile dictates to them their ability tp perform anything for the better or the worse than anyone else. 

[bm85]

I don't what kind of napkin math "2 years, and you've peaked" is, but it's not worth wiping your...with.

[SavvySwede]

I think most players do hit a major plateau after pursuing the game seriously for 2-3 years. But most people by that point aren't really changing up their practice routines, seeking out good instruction, or increasing their frequency of play.   

[Howling Coyote]

26 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

I think most players do hit a major plateau after pursuing the game seriously for 2-3 years. But most people by that point aren't really changing up their practice routines, seeking out good instruction, or increasing their frequency of play.   

To me it was more about changing the way I practice and the way I learn.

Before, took a lesson, then hit a 100 balls, took a lesson repeat.  My assumption was that nature would lead me to the correct swing.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

So, I've often heard from people that once you've been playing a couple years that you will not really improve that much from that point on. I've found this to be somewhat discouraging, and was wondering what the limitation really is?

That is a load of BS. I was playing golf for 10 years at a 12-16 handicap. After getting lessons from Erik I've dropped to a 5  handicap. I see potential to get to scratch within the next year or so. 

The only limitation is your ability to take instruction and implement it properly. 

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Is it some inherent drive to get the ball into the hole "no matter what"? What is it that differentiates someone who aggressively seeks the pin versus the rest of us?

It's the inherent drive to get better. It's buying into the process of actually practicing with a purpose. I believe any golfer has the ability to improve. 

Is there diminishing returns, heck ya. The energy and effort to get close or better than scratch is astronomically higher than it was to go from double digit to single digit. Hey, I am a masochist when it comes to golf. I love the challenge. I love improving even if it is just a small amount. I like seeing my swing change from where it was. 

As long as I love the process I will keep improving. 

 

[Dave2512]

I had some previous golf experience but honestly it's a blank in my memory as far as skill, I did play on a county sponsored school team in jr. high but I played every sport that didn't have conflicting seasons. Started in April 2012 at 44 yrs old and couldn't even finish a hole I was so bad. Played several months on par 3 courses and eventually got the guts to get out on longer courses. Long story short I started keeping a handicap July of 2012 and had a constant trend down from 26 to 12.3 by November 2012. By the end of 2013 I was sub 10 without lessons. With lessons summer of 2014 I was down to 6. If I can stay healthy I'll drop a few points this year.

[Buckeyebowman]

In a word, yes. It is possible. The question is how badly do you want it, and how much time do you have to invest in the process? When I got really good I practiced and/or played at least 5-6 times a week. Then came a time in my life when I couldn't do that, and the skill kind of floated away. Not completely, but I'm a long way from where I was. Of course, I'm 40 years older too, and that has an effect.

[Big Lex]

I played between 12-18 hcp for 20 years or so. With basically no instruction, I got down to a 7 last season, just by playing more and practicing. This year, my goal is to get under 5, and for that I am getting instruction from an experienced, modern PGA pro with a great teaching resume. It's definitely possible.

The mental aspect is huge. Not the mental game, but the mental aspect of how you approach instruction. You have to trust the instructor, be disciplined to do what they say, and believe that you are capable of improving. You have to take chances, be willing to look stupid, to feel weird, etc. etc. A good instructor is important as they can help you through this aspect of it...with encouragement, etc.

 

 

[mvmac]

Yes absolutely, as long as you work on stuff that matters and stick with it 

Don't "try" something different every time you hit a bad shot, read a golf magazine or hear a pro talk about what works for them.

[ZappyAd]

4 hours ago, mvmac said:

Don't "try" something different every time you hit a bad shot, read a golf magazine or hear a pro talk about what works for them.

I played with a guy who not only tried something different every shot but changed it up between his practice swing and his shot 

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, saevel25 said:

That is a load of BS. I was playing golf for 10 years at a 12-16 handicap. After getting lessons from Erik I've dropped to a 5  handicap. I see potential to get to scratch within the next year or so. 

The only limitation is your ability to take instruction and implement it properly. 

It's the inherent drive to get better. It's buying into the process of actually practicing with a purpose. I believe any golfer has the ability to improve. 

Is there diminishing returns, heck ya. The energy and effort to get close or better than scratch is astronomically higher than it was to go from double digit to single digit. Hey, I am a masochist when it comes to golf. I love the challenge. I love improving even if it is just a small amount. I like seeing my swing change from where it was. 

As long as I love the process I will keep improving. 

 

I'm getting tired of giving you reputation points. 

[Ernest Jones]

13 hours ago, Patch said:

My guess is that given enough time, the correct tools, and the correct instruction, a golfer will get as good as they are going to get.

Tough to argue with that statement!

[nevets88]

13 hours ago, saevel25 said:

That is a load of BS. I was playing golf for 10 years at a 12-16 handicap. After getting lessons from Erik I've dropped to a 5  handicap. I see potential to get to scratch within the next year or so. 

The only limitation is your ability to take instruction and implement it properly. 

It's the inherent drive to get better. It's buying into the process of actually practicing with a purpose. I believe any golfer has the ability to improve. 

Is there diminishing returns, heck ya. The energy and effort to get close or better than scratch is astronomically higher than it was to go from double digit to single digit. Hey, I am a masochist when it comes to golf. I love the challenge. I love improving even if it is just a small amount. I like seeing my swing change from where it was. 

As long as I love the process I will keep improving. 

 

I've been following @saevel25's swing thread and I was going to mention him as a example - it's pretty darn obvious. And @billchao is making headway too. Like that chef that goes Bam! or Boom! or Bong!, whatever. You'll see lots of examples of before and after videos and many cases of people making huge improvements on the internet when the instruction clicks and the instructee is all in.

Imho, I think that the "you can only get so much better" mythos is one of the symptoms of there being so few effective instructors out there.

If you make your rounds around golf niches, there are places where there is an amazing instructor and most of the golfers in that club or range are very competent players. That, is no accident.

[pganapathy]

Everybody can improve with time, effort and most importantly the willingness to understand and learn.  In my opinion almost anybody can be a single digit to scratch golfer, but the key is the amount of work needed to get there.  Of course there is a point beyond which a person cannot improve.

For me the key is focused practice and coaching from a good pro, but I will make the proviso that coaching is not absolutely essential.  For proof, just see Bubba Watson, who has never been coached and developed a swing style all of his own through trial and error.  Admittedly, he is a natural athlete, but it is still possible.

[dave s]

I believe I'm at the 'diminishing return' phase of my game.  Over the last 5 seasons, I've assessed and addressed the areas of my game where shots have been thrown away on a regular basis.  Main areas of focus were:

1. Makeable putts on greens.  Those pesky 2-5 footers that are missed when they should have been made.  Corrected.  Rarely miss these anymore.

2. Hitting par-3 greens more regularly.  This was perhaps the most stroke-sucking part of my game.  Corrected as much as I can correct it.

3. Eating up yards on par 5s and long par 4s with a consistent long club shots.  Correcting this THIS season. On my way with a 5-wood that seems to be hitting it high, straight and in the 190 yard range.  Good enough for me.

The 'diminishing returns' part of the game is losing length with all clubs as I get older. That can't be helped.  I don't know of a way to put 20-30 yards on my drive or be able start hitting 130 yard wedge shots.  It's just not going to happen.

What I've worked on the past 5 years has chipped a few strokes off my handicap, but it's already to the point of almost a net wash due to my entire game is a 'shorter game' anymore.

Dave