Five-some question

[DaveP043]

33 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

It always amazes me how everyone complains about slow play, yet when one of these threads comes up, everyone is Speedy Gonzales.  Seems sort of ironic that we all seem to play faster as a fivesome than we do in smaller numbers.  

I think only one person has said they play as fast as fives as they do as fours, the rest have all said a fivesome is slower.  I do think that those of us who pay attention to the various pace of play threads are also conscious of our own pace of play, so that as a group we're generally (not universally) not part of the problem.  I think that players who don't care, or who prefer to take more time, tend not to follow these threads.  

I'll also agree than many slow players don't think of themselves as slow, but I don't hear them complaining as much as legitimately fast players do.  Yes, I've made some broad generalizations, and I realize there are exceptions, but this is the way I see the big picture.

[WUTiger]

18 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

One thing I've noticed about fivesomes, they tend to be mostly beginners that don't realize you shouldn't play as a fivesome.  And it's not all about the golf for them, it's social hour... make that social six hours.

The fivesomes I see tend to be a "social hour" group. If they're golf-focused and play ready-golf, they can move along OK. But, if they ended up on the golf course rather than on their Friday-afternoon bar stools, they can grind the course to a halt.

[shanksalot]

If every group has the same type of player, ie fast, then a fivesome would still be slower than all other groups. But in reality a fivesome could in fact be faster depending on how fast they play. Yet it is a poor example to set on any course. If you let one group of five players out that are really fast and can play in under 4 hours you have to let any other group of five out as well. Most groups of four play in more than four hours. Letting a fivesome out is just begging for very slow play. Slow play is dictated by the slowest early group out in the morning. There are very few groups on our course that play faster than our group. Yet there is one group at our course that if they play in front of us, we have a hard time keeping up with them, unless there is a slower group in front of them. There is not one course in our area that will let a fivesome out on their course. 

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

It always amazes me how everyone complains about slow play, yet when one of these threads comes up, everyone is Speedy Gonzales.

Just like everybody complains about the "other" drivers on the road too, right? 

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

And @Pendragon - They let fivesomes out first thing so that they can bog the course down right from the start?  This makes no sense at all to me.  Most courses I play won't even consider letting a fivesome out at all, much less put them out ahead of the rest of the field.

I agree that it makes no sense, but there is a course I play that does this as well.  Similar to yours, they do require all fivesomes to take carts, but as far as I know, they don't have restrictions on times for fivesomes.  I've been the second time of the day there recently (a couple of weeks ago, 5:38 am) on a Friday morning and we followed a 5-some.

It's entirely possible, though, that this course restricts the times but allows known fast groups off as fivesomes?  We were a walking twosome that paired with another twosome and we finished 18 in about 3:45 and we could not keep up with them.  They left us in the dust after about 5-6 holes.

[colin007]

A five some might be able to play faster than a three some of buddies I have. They play slower than molasses going uphill in the winter...

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, colin007 said:

A five some might be able to play faster than a three some of buddies I have. They play slower than molasses going uphill in the winter...

And this is the thing, not every fivesome is slow, and not every threesome is fast.  However, If four specific players add one more player, and they don't change their procedures, they're going to go slower than they were as a foursome.

[Scotsclaff]

I played in a fivesome yesterday,3hrs 50mins.

[David in FL]

6 minutes ago, Scotsclaff said:

I played in a fivesome yesterday,3hrs 50mins.

Nice job!

But, had you had one fewer player, you would have finished even quicker, right?  That's what the OP is asking.  

Unfortunately, some assume that all 5-somes are slow, when that's obviously no more accurate, than assuming that all 3-somes are fast.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 8/1/2016 at 0:20 PM, Joe92385 said:

I'm not aware of any data, but anecdotally it depends on the fivesome.  On the occasions that I've played as a fivesome (and none of us are very good), we play ready golf and keep pace just fine.  In fact, I'd say we probably play faster than if we were in separate groups, for essentially the same reason that waving up a group on a par 3 helps move things along.

Then again, I've certainly been behind a number of very slow fivesomes.  It just depends on how they're playing - not necessarily how WELL, but whether they're playing ready golf or waiting on each others' shots.

There's your answer right there! I've seen fivesomes play quite quickly, and it wasn't because they were all low handicappers. They found their ball, set up, and played their next shot! Ready golf!

Other times, I've watched carts race back and forth across the fairway until it looked like the old demolition derby from Islip, NY! Nobody watches anybody else's ball, so nobody knows where they really came to rest. It's just a joke!

[boogielicious]

I think we need a Constitutional Amendment to make a five-some illegal in all states.

[Hardspoon]

Perception, not just actual pace, is a part of the problem with slow play. If you have to wait on two groups (two and three), you tee off 10 minutes later, so your overall finish time might be similar.

However, you will FEEL much slower playing behind a five-some (five-ball?). You will have to wait on more shots, and watch them all putt out.

[Zekez]

15 hours ago, David in FL said:

Nice job!

But, had you had one fewer player, you would have finished even quicker, right?  That's what the OP is asking.  

Unfortunately, some assume that all 5-somes are slow, when that's obviously no more accurate, than assuming that all 3-somes are fast.

Not what I was asking.  Re check my original post.

[dave s]

I can say this:  Last Saturday, the starter warned us our group of 4 was following a 5-some.  We had a 3-some just making its way to the tee box as we were leaving.  We absolutely NEVER saw the 5-some on any hole we played the entire round.  Also, the 3-some behind us NEVER caught up to us.  Nice round and perfect pace for our group.  Finished 18 in 4 hours 10 minutes.  We played an 'emergency 9' afterwards.

OTOH, I've played a local course that has a sign posted at the starter shack near the 1st hole that says "Absolutely NO Five-Somes."  Trust me when I tell you I've followed a 5-some of old cronies at this course and played a miserably slow round as a result.  Let us play through?  Not on your life.

5-somes don't bother me at all IF they group moves and keeps up with pace of play.  Slow us down and make us wait on every hole?  That's what cell phones were made for.

dave

[No Mulligans]

2 minutes ago, dave s said:

5-somes don't bother me at all IF they group moves and keeps up with pace of play.  Slow us down and make us wait on every hole?  That's what cell phones were made for.

dave

Exactly, it's all about pace of play.  A group of 5 needs to keep pace with the group in front.  If not the group behind is likely to be upset with the starter for letting a group play as a 5.

[CarlSpackler]

We have played quite a few times as a walking 5some in our golf league waiting on the riding foursome. The riding 4some would drive to player 1's ball where he would get the yardage, select club, and play. Then P1 would clean club while cart 2 / P1 would play their shot assuming they were getting their yardage and preparing while C1 / P1 was also preparing (sadly this doesn't always happen). Each cart would then proceed to the P2's ball and repeat the process. Some riding 4somes would drop P1 at their ball and proceed to their ball after P1 selected his club, then P1 would walk across the fairway to P2. 

Meanwhile, all 5 of us would go to our balls, prepare and be ready to go. When the green clears, all 5 shots  are played in rapid succession and then we proceed to the next shot. It would take a longer on and around the green, but we would usually get to the next tee and wait while the riders in front of us were crossing the fairway from P1 to P2's ball.

It didn't always happen this way, but we never fell behind unless 1 player was having a really bad hole, but that would happen occasionally in a 4some. If it did, it would not take much time for us to catch back up.

[xcott]

On 8/1/2016 at 11:31 AM, Joe92385 said:

There does seem to be a correlation between the size of the group and the perceived amount of time it takes each to go through their pre-putt routine... I'd swear that the same player takes an extra minute to line up his/her putt when in a fivesome.

This! Saw it yesterday. 

[Strandly]

Aaaand speak of the devil, I go to play today after not playing for 9 days because of the heat and as a single I get stuck behind a fivesome for the entire front 9.  I was so mad I almost left after #4 but since I haven't played in so long I stuck it out to see if I could get by them at the turn.  I almost thought they weren't gonna let me through at the turn because 2 of them didn't stop for food or drinks and went to wait at #10.

What a miserable front 9 though, all this did was reinforce my hatred for groups of 5+.

In stranger news I actually hit another goose on the back 9.  #17 is a par 4 with a pond along the fairway about 2/3 of the way to the hole and it's always crowded with geese.  I hit one on the fly with my drive and it flipped over and was kinda twitching and spazzing out like it was gonna die.  When I got close though it flipped back over and got up and walked away while ruffling its feathers.

I've now officially hit more geese than scored eagles which is somewhat irritating.

[PJCdude]

1 hour ago, Strandly said:

Aaaand speak of the devil, I go to play today after not playing for 9 days because of the heat and as a single I get stuck behind a fivesome for the entire front 9.  I was so mad I almost left after #4 but since I haven't played in so long I stuck it out to see if I could get by them at the turn.  I almost thought they weren't gonna let me through at the turn because 2 of them didn't stop for food or drinks and went to wait at #10.

What a miserable front 9 though, all this did was reinforce my hatred for groups of 5+.

In stranger news I actually hit another goose on the back 9.  #17 is a par 4 with a pond along the fairway about 2/3 of the way to the hole and it's always crowded with geese.  I hit one on the fly with my drive and it flipped over and was kinda twitching and spazzing out like it was gonna die.  When I got close though it flipped back over and got up and walked away while ruffling its feathers.

I've now officially hit more geese than scored eagles which is somewhat irritating.

I hit a goose a few years ago and it acted EXACTLY like you described. I guess that's protocol?