When Do You Lay Up?

[JonMA1]

19 hours ago, WUTiger said:

The other one was local, an irregular shaped green with pot bunkers.

A few years ago I had started a 9 hole round without realizing I was playing from tees that were too long for my game. The course wasn't busy so I just kept playing from them. The thing I remember the most was how intimidating those bunkers were. There was no way I was going to attack some of those greens with a fairway wood or hybrid.

[CCC]

I don't hit the ball very far. Every shot is a lay up. :)

 

[dbuck]

What is the carry and margin for short/over, and do I have a comfortable club for that?

Off the deck, for me, max is 200, maybe a little more off the tee.

Conditions including lie, stance, and weather. Generally speaking, less than optimal reduces max.

How am I swinging today.  This can override-meaning reduce max for the above.

What is the upside/downside. I don't necessarily mean risk/reward.  For instance on one hole I regularly play the fairway slopes left toward the water, and you can sometimes have a hook lie. While the club I need might not be perfectly comfortable, the bailout slopes toward the water and the hook lie makes it more hazardous to try for the bail out than to hit harder or use a longer club to go for the green. If I use a long enough club but still hook it, I am left of the green and long as opposed to short and in the water.

[Mr. Desmond]

Depends on the lie - rough, uphill, downhill, ball above or below feet - hazards, and my swing that day. Then I'll add up the probabilities and decide.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[The Hook Meister]

When do I lay up? Like most golfers distance, lie, hazards, and flag location play very key factors in my play, I( have a couple of rules I like to follow: 1) don;t force a shot 2) take a minute and think about it. If you just grab a club and go for it you most likely won't like the results. 3) always allow for the wind. The wind can add distance to your shot, or shorten it. Cross winds can be a little tricky. Behind you you have to play the ball a little to the left or the right. In font of you I tend to hate life right about there! I will stand there thinking I am dammed if I do or if I don.t go for it. 4) How  I am hitting my clubs on that day.

[HotFudgeMondae]

Unfortunately, I can’t hit my 3wood off the deck to save my life.. so I always have to layup on a par 5 if anything is over 220-230. I have learned to just lay it up with a club that I know I can hit, to a distance that I feel comfortable taking a full shot.

 

definitely, looking to figure out how to hit my 3 off the deck this year, because I like to play aggressively...

[b101]

Pretty rarely - usually only when I've got a poor lie, a dodgy stance or I'm just not feeling like I'll hit the 3w/hybrid well (there are definitely on days and off days with those clubs...!). Otherwise, as others say, when it just isn't the smart decision or there isn't room for the obvious miss. I don't really take bunkers into account as I feel I'll usually tend to take as many shots from a greenside bunker as I will from 50 yards short of the green (2.9 or so) and if I aim at the right part of the green, I'll have a decent shot at avoiding the bunkers. Also, the odds are I'll have a short chip or pitch, which helps tip the odds further toward going for it. 

Things that do affect my decision would be OB, water short or if the obvious miss leads to a very difficult up and down. Even with the last though, I'd be tempted to go for it anyway.

[onthehunt526]

On 12/6/2017 at 7:58 PM, iacas said:

Usually… when my Decision Map says to.

It's that simple.

What's involved in that? How I'm playing that day. The distance. The weather and conditions. My opponent if that's relevant. My Shot Zones. The shades of grey and their proximity to other areas.

Pretty simple.

Question Erik,

I know on very long par-5s (600+ yards) I know I'm never going to reach the green in two (let alone three). Is there a difference between "laying back" and "laying up"? I heard Ken Venturi used to say when he was calling the action at the 13th at Augusta, that you lay back not lay up... Sorry for the rambling, Erik.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Question Erik,

I know on very long par-5s (600+ yards) I know I'm never going to reach the green in two (let alone three). Is there a difference between "laying back" and "laying up"? I heard Ken Venturi used to say when he was calling the action at the 13th at Augusta, that you lay back not lay up... Sorry for the rambling, Erik.

I don't know.

On 13 at Augusta, I don't think there's a huge advantage to laying back. On 15, there is… because as you get closer to the green you're pitching uphill from a severe downhill lie, and that's a tougher shot than one that's 30 yards longer, because back there it's flatter, and more level to the green, and you can get just a little more spin on the ball too.

Being closer to the green - particularly at the PGA Tour level - is usually better, but not always. (The better your game, the more often it's better to lay back to a yardage, but it's still a small minority of the time, and only when conditions are like 15 at Augusta, which aren't that common at all.)

[Hoganman1]

I've learned to lay up if I'm more than 150 yards out, with a downhill lie, and there's water in front of the green. Otherwise I usually give it a go. My short game and putting will bail me out if and when I miss the green. 

[Buckeyebowman]

For me, it's fairly simple. If I can't reach, because of lie, rough, hazards etc., I lay up! I've also found that I'm forced to lay up more often if I've picked the wrong set of tees to play. If you really look at a golf hole, some of them offer you ready made "bail out" areas to shoot for.

I also liked that, early on, iacas mentioned "conditions". The last round I played this year it was cold, with a stiff breeze out of the North. On one hole I hit a really nice drive, one of my best of the year. The dogleg left turned directly into the wind for the second shot. I got my yardage and chose a club two clubs longer than normal for my approach. I dead nutted this shot! I'm not capable of hitting a golf ball any better than I hit that one. String straight and dead on the flagstick. My buddy said, "Wow! What a great shot!"

It wound up a full club short! So, I wound up chipping and putting to try to make par. I made bogey, but I wasn't all that disappointed. I put a great swing on that ball. I just had the wrong club in my hands.

[Patch]

I lay up when ever the tee box is too far away......

[Pablo68]

On par 5s, if I can't get it within 10 yards of the green with my 2nd shot, I'll lay back to 80-100 yards where my GW or SW can usually stick it close. I try to avoid the 30-50 yard shots when at all possible.

[JonMA1]

39 minutes ago, Pablo68 said:

On par 5s, if I can't get it within 10 yards of the green with my 2nd shot, I'll lay back to 80-100 yards where my GW or SW can usually stick it close. I try to avoid the 30-50 yard shots when at all possible.

I see this a lot and it seems the in-between yardage is tougher for even some of the better players like yourself.

Do you work on those 30-50 yard shots? I can't really explain it, but I really like that part of the game. It's a challenge to adjust my grip position and backswing to get the ball to drop where I want. Not saying I'm good at it, but it's such a great feeling when I do succeed.

[Pablo68]

14 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I see this a lot and it seems the in-between yardage is tougher for even some of the better players like yourself.

Do you work on those 30-50 yard shots? I can't really explain it, but I really like that part of the game. It's a challenge to adjust my grip position and backswing to get the ball to drop where I want. Not saying I'm good at it, but it's such a great feeling when I do succeed.

I've been working on developing a shot for that range by limiting my weight shift while varying the length of my backswing (sort of like a very extended chip shot) I'm getting better at it however I try to play to my strength which is the 80-100 yard wedge shots.

[JonMA1]

49 minutes ago, Pablo68 said:

I've been working on developing a shot for that range by limiting my weight shift while varying the length of my backswing (sort of like a very extended chip shot) I'm getting better at it however I try to play to my strength which is the 80-100 yard wedge shots.

That sounds similar to my method where I'll put most of my weight on my lead foot and shift very little on the backswing. Mine looks goofy on video but since there are less moving parts, I feel I have more control. I'll even use that swing from 125 yards and in with a 9 iron. I don't think I took a single full swing with any of my wedges, and very few fulls swings with my 9i the entire 2017 season.

Anyway, I understand playing to your strengths and avoiding weaknesses. For me, green side bunkers are especially difficult. I'd rather hit from further out than from the sand. Just something I have to work on.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Pablo68 said:

I've been working on developing a shot for that range by limiting my weight shift while varying the length of my backswing (sort of like a very extended chip shot) I'm getting better at it however I try to play to my strength which is the 80-100 yard wedge shots.

You owe it to yourself to actually test that out.

A lot of golfers think they're bad at some mid-range style shots like your 30-50 yards, but they're still better from there than they are from 80-100. Their expectations are out of whack, though: they hit it to 10 feet from 50 yards and are pissed, while they hit it to 18 feet from 80 yards and are pretty happy. (In reality, both shots were pretty much world class, and the ten-footer is eight feet closer to the hole than the one from 80 yards.)

Virtually everyone we've checked actually hits it closer, on average, from 30-50 than 80-100. The few who didn't simply spent about 30 minutes figuring out how to hit those shots, and then were better from that range than from 80-100.

<promotion>@Pablo68, you should pick up a copy of LSW if you haven't already.</promotion>

[Osnola]

For me, not being that good a golfer, I lay up anytime it will prevent me from making two bad shots in a row...