2018 U.S. Open at Shinnecock Hills

[ChrisP]

19 minutes ago, Archie Bunker said:

Great tournament. Had me watching to the end. Congratulations Brooks (again!)

To me, it looked like Dustin and Brooks had a police escort close by on every hole. Anybody else notice this? There were cops on all sides. No other group had this going on. Anyone know the reason?

 

I would imagine it was because their group was the biggest draw. No disrespect to Berger or Finau, but I’m not sure they had 50 people following them. But for Koepka and DJ, I would imagine the crowd would be big for those two stars and big hitters. I would think Phil and Rickie would have one, too.  I know when I helped at Valspar, they had a police officer with the Tiger group and also the McIlroy group.

[Archie Bunker]

10 hours ago, ChrisP said:

I would imagine it was because their group was the biggest draw. No disrespect to Berger or Finau, but I’m not sure they had 50 people following them. But for Koepka and DJ, I would imagine the crowd would be big for those two stars and big hitters. I would think Phil and Rickie would have one, too.  I know when I helped at Valspar, they had a police officer with the Tiger group and also the McIlroy group.

Actually, it reminded me of a PGA Championship years ago, where Hubert Green received death threats prior to his final round. Somebody threatened to kill him on the golf course that day, and he had a police escort during his entire round. Every time Dustin and Brooks left the tee yesterday, they were closely flanked left, right and behind by police officers. Seemed unusual. 

[DeadMan]

Pretty incredible that Koepka won again. I was a little worried when he went left with approach shot on 18, but he was saved by the grandstands there. Without them, he might have been struggling to make double bogey.

Fleetwood is so pure. Too bad he missed that putt on 18, because a 62 might have won it. I think he wins a major sooner rather than later. Augusta should fit him perfectly with his ballstriking.

[phillyk]

29 minutes ago, Archie Bunker said:

 Every time Dustin and Brooks left the tee yesterday, they were closely flanked left, right and behind by police officers. Seemed unusual. 

Police typically escort all the big names and the leaders at nearly every event.

[rehmwa]

I watched this entire thing this time.  So much fun.

1 - TOMMY - make that putt.  what a let down, it looked like he had it.  I'm a fan.  I was predicting that the course would get tougher through the day and someone from the middle of the day would make a big move early while the last 3 groups would lose ground.  Apparently that was you...close, but no major.....yet

2 - TONY - WTF?  how many dollars did those 2 strokes cost at the end.  I'm a fan.

3 - Dustin - keep the putting going, this was yours to lose.  Still a fan

4 - Brooks - wow, just wow, great tourney.  becoming more of a fan.  especially because of the calm approach to the game tied with fitness

5 - Phil - I 'less' of a fan.  there's another thread,,,not here

6 - Tiger, Rory, Adam, Jordan - I'm still a big fan.  tough course those first couple days??????

 

 

[saevel25]

I know people complain about the US Open set up, but I prefer them making golfers play exceptional to win. I think they did that.

I have no issue with them placing the cup with in a few feet of a false front that would have your ball roll off the green. If you want to take a chance on a 30 FT birdie putt, go ahead. Risk/Reward is the name of the game. I'd probably leave the putt 2 FT short and get out of there with a par. That is golf. Play the course, take your shots, and accept that not ever shot can be at the hole, even putts.

 

[Big C]

16 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I know people complain about the US Open set up, but I prefer them making golfers play exceptional to win. I think they did that.

I don't think anyone would argue with this. But if the setup becomes so tough that good shots are not rewarded because they won't stop unless they go into the hole, then the game becomes less a test of skill and more tilted towards good fortune.

 

20 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I'd probably leave the putt 2 FT short and get out of there with a par. 

And if there were several pin positions where leaving it 2 feet short of the hole were literally not possible, then I would say that is bad on the USGA.

I wasn't there to see it with my own eyes, but based on what I saw on TV, combined with the comments from just about every credible source who dared to comment, I'd say the USGA messed up on Saturday.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Big C said:

I don't think anyone would argue with this. But if the setup becomes so tough that good shots are not rewarded because they won't stop unless they go into the hole, then the game becomes less a test of skill and more tilted towards good fortune.

Define good shot? Doesn't the definition change when the course toughen up? A good shot might be 45 FT away from the pin, not going at the pin.

Should a ball that lands on the green have to stay on the green? Absolutely not. If the ball lands with in 10 Ft does of the pin, it doesn't mean it's a good shot if the end result is the ball is off the green.

I think a lot of golfers complained because they can't do what they do 95% of the time.

The only thing I do not like is when a ball is blown off a severe green by the wind. That is about as far as I would take it. Everything else, a golfer can be more strategic with their game.

[Big C]

9 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Define good shot? Doesn't the definition change when the course toughen up? A good shot might be 45 FT away from the pin, not going at the pin.

Should a ball that lands on the green have to stay on the green? Absolutely not. If the ball lands with in 10 Ft does of the pin, it doesn't mean it's a good shot if the end result is the ball is off the green.

I think a lot of golfers complained because they can't do what they do 95% of the time.

The only thing I do not like is when a ball is blown off a severe green by the wind. That is about as far as I would take it. Everything else, a golfer can be more strategic with their game.

I agree, to an extent. I think these guys are so conditioned to fire at pins that it can sometimes work to their detriment. One of these days, I would love to see a player lay up to a perfect pitching angle from 150 yards because he knows his chances of getting up and down from the front of the green are better than trying to hold a full iron shot.

But when the "effective" landing area of a green becomes too small - especially for short game shots - it really turns the course into a crapshoot. Consider a chip shot where anything that stops within 3 feet of the flag will hold. But anything outside of that rolls off the green 20 yards away. The reward is disproportionate to the quality of the shot when the course gets too close to the edge.

 

[JonMA1]

10 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I think a lot of golfers complained because they can't do what they do 95% of the time.

Agreed.

I know almost nothing about professional golf or how they set up courses, and I don't know what it means to "lose" a course. The course was on the extreme side of difficult... so what? It was also difficult for the winner. Maybe he focused less on what he normally shoots and more on what it would take to win the tournament under those conditions. 

When decisions at my work are made which introduce unusual difficulties, I can either spend time bitching about how impossible it is to produce as much work as usual, or I can apply effort towards ways to overcome those difficulties.

As a fan, I thought it was fun to watch the best players in the world deal with the toughest course conditions in the world. I found it every bit as impressive that some were able to shoot par after 4 days on this course as when they shoot 12 under on others. Again, I don't know jack shit about pro golf, so maybe I'm missing something.

[saevel25]

5 minutes ago, Big C said:

But when the "effective" landing area of a green becomes too small - especially for short game shots - it really turns the course into a crapshoot. Consider a chip shot where anything that stops within 3 feet of the flag will hold. But anything outside of that rolls off the green 20 yards away. The reward is disproportionate to the quality of the shot when the course gets too close to the edge.

Then aim 5-10 FT from the pin were it is flatter.

I've played a few Donald Ross courses in Pinehurst were if you are in a bunker you can not go at a pin unless you can land the ball, softly, on a specific spot or it is off the green. If you aim 10 FT to the left then you have a bank to land the ball into and have no issue keeping the ball on the green.

Should I complain about this design? I don't. I know I shouldn't have been in the bunker to begin with.

[Big C]

Just now, saevel25 said:

Then aim 5-10 FT from the pin were it is flatter.

 

That's a reasonable suggestion, but what if such a "safe" play does not exist?

 

11 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I know almost nothing about professional golf or how they set up courses, and I don't know what it means to "lose" a course. 

 

In it's most extreme form, I would equate it to the mini - golf "volcano" hole. You hit the putt and hope you make it because if it doesn't go it, it's rolling back down the other side. You try it again and again until one of your putts falls. If that never happens, you write down your 6 and move onto the next hole. Only there is no max score at the US Open. 

I'm not saying it ever got that bad at this US Open, but again, that is the extreme version of what people felt were unnecessarily penal conditions.

If I recall correctly @Golfingdad and @allenc played an Amateur event at Pelican hill where one of the holes was cut on an almost impossible slope. Putts hit straight up the hill were just as likely to roll back down to your feet as they were to stay up. How did you guys feel about that hole?

[Groucho Valentine]

2 hours ago, DeadMan said:

Pretty incredible that Koepka won again. I was a little worried when he went left with approach shot on 18, but he was saved by the grandstands there. Without them, he might have been struggling to make double bogey.

Fleetwood is so pure. Too bad he missed that putt on 18, because a 62 might have won it. I think he wins a major sooner rather than later. Augusta should fit him perfectly with his ballstriking.

Thats what i was thinking, too. Man he really left one out there on 18. But incredible that Koepka has won on back to back years in the easiest and then some of the most difficult scoring conditions in the history of the tournament. 

[Jeremie Boop]

1 hour ago, Big C said:

I don't think anyone would argue with this. But if the setup becomes so tough that good shots are not rewarded because they won't stop unless they go into the hole, then the game becomes less a test of skill and more tilted towards good fortune.

 

And if there were several pin positions where leaving it 2 feet short of the hole were literally not possible, then I would say that is bad on the USGA.

I wasn't there to see it with my own eyes, but based on what I saw on TV, combined with the comments from just about every credible source who dared to comment, I'd say the USGA messed up on Saturday.

Didn't they even admit that the course got away from them on Saturday? I mean, people can discuss whether they thought the course was unreasonably set up all the way up until the actual governing body admits that it got too tough. Then I would think it's time to at least take their word for it. I can deal with players scoring bad because of weather or other elements out of anyone's control, but when they try too hard to make a course difficult only to go overboard or lose control of the conditions because of it then I really dislike it. I understand trying to make the course a challenge, but at least have the ability to keep it within your initial perimeters.

[Big C]

8 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Didn't they even admit that the course got away from them on Saturday? I mean, people can discuss whether they thought the course was unreasonably set up all the way up until the actual governing body admits that it got too tough. Then I would think it's time to at least take their word for it. I can deal with players scoring bad because of weather or other elements out of anyone's control, but when they try too hard to make a course difficult only to go overboard or lose control of the conditions because of it then I really dislike it. I understand trying to make the course a challenge, but at least have the ability to keep it within your initial perimeters.

Yes, Mike Davis admitted as much (Golf week link). He blamed the fact that the winds on Saturday afternoon exceeded their forecasts.

I listened to the Shack House podcast on my drive to work this morning and Geoff Shackelford basically called B.S. on that explanation. He did some research on all the available wind forecasts from Saturday and his take was that the wind did exactly what the forecasters were predicting. What caught the USGA by surprise was how much of an impact that those winds would have on the greens and the playing conditions. 

Essentially, he called Davis' explanation a cop-out.

 

[GolfLug]

I think the best part of the Saturday course set up was how it got under Poulter's skin.. 😋

 

 

 

 

[Jeremie Boop]

2 minutes ago, Big C said:

Yes, Mike Davis admitted as much (Golf week link). He blamed the fact that the winds on Saturday afternoon exceeded their forecasts.

I listened to the Shack House podcast on my drive to work this morning and Geoff Shackelford basically called B.S. on that explanation. He did some research on all the available wind forecasts from Saturday and his take was that the wind did exactly what the forecasters were predicting. What caught the USGA by surprise was how much of an impact that those winds would have on the greens and the playing conditions. 

Essentially, he called Davis' explanation a cop-out.

 

I'm glad I wasn't imagining or misremembering that. I barely paid attention after watching a little bit on Saturday. I saw how much stuff was going and lost interest. Like I said, I understand wanting to make the tournament tough, but when they can't keep a handle on it, then I just can't keep interested.

[boogielicious]

3 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I know people complain about the US Open set up, but I prefer them making golfers play exceptional to win. I think they did that.

I have no issue with them placing the cup with in a few feet of a false front that would have your ball roll off the green. If you want to take a chance on a 30 FT birdie putt, go ahead. Risk/Reward is the name of the game. I'd probably leave the putt 2 FT short and get out of there with a par. That is golf. Play the course, take your shots, and accept that not ever shot can be at the hole, even putts.

 

Great point. This was best illustrated IMO by Brooks recoveries from bad shots too. The par 3 that he overshot, then put the next into the bunker and still ended up with just a bogey was more spectacular than some of his birdies.