Faster Play - Is It Hurting the Game?

[fburns]

Please hear me out. I have been playing golf for over 50 years. I tend to play golf relatively fast. In fact, I often have to force myself to slow down at times. I play to about a 5 handicap. However, I have several friends who have had an interest in learning to play golf. They had been to the range, taken some basic lessons and had general skills to grip the club, swing, etc. We started them teeing off from the 100 yard marker until they were relatively proficient, then moved back to 150 and in a little while the 200 yard marker. Their max score was randomly set at 7 (No one likes a snowman)

Even with those adaptations, the pressure that these new golfers felt from those around them to play quickly was intense. Those around us had zero tolerance for new people who are learning how to play golf on a golf course. We all know that this is a hard game and we have all been there. These men were trained to let others play through, so they really were not holding up anyone. But the comments made to them by those with more skill, or at least speed, were demoralizing. Even the starter suggested that they spend their time on the driving range and avoid the course. We played 18 holes in 4 hours and 14 minutes not exactly a snails pace. So here is my question...

When did we decide that golf was a race? Was it when we stopped walking and started riding? Maybe I am a purist, but isn't part of golf getting away from the rat race?

People often say that new people don't persist playing golf because of three things: It is too hard, it is too expensive and and it is too time consuming. I would add, the game is no longer welcoming to beginners.

All of my friends left the golf course after about 4 rounds. They will not come back. Sad because their swings are getting pretty good.

I know because they invite me to their regular game where they are welcomed with open arms- Top Golf.

 

[colin007]

You mention you're a purist, because ironically golf never took this long back in the day.

I personally would NEVER bring a newbie to a "real" course. I would go strictly to driving ranges and par 3 courses until they got the hang of things.

All that being said, 4:14 isn't the end of the world (although it does feel like a death slog to me)

[DaveP043]

9 minutes ago, fburns said:

Please hear me out. I have been playing golf for over 50 years. I tend to play golf relatively fast. In fact, I often have to force myself to slow down at times. I play to about a 5 handicap. However, I have several friends who have had an interest in learning to play golf. They had been to the range, taken some basic lessons and had general skills to grip the club, swing, etc. We started them teeing off from the 100 yard marker until they were relatively proficient, then moved back to 150 and in a little while the 200 yard marker. Their max score was randomly set at 7 (No one likes a snowman)

Even with those adaptations, the pressure that these new golfers felt from those around them to play quickly was intense. Those around us had zero tolerance for new people who are learning how to play golf on a golf course. We all know that this is a hard game and we have all been there. These men were trained to let others play through, so they really were not holding up anyone. But the comments made to them by those with more skill, or at least speed, were demoralizing. Even the starter suggested that they spend their time on the driving range and avoid the course. We played 18 holes in 4 hours and 14 minutes not exactly a snails pace. So here is my question...

When did we decide that golf was a race? Was it when we stopped walking and started riding? Maybe I am a purist, but isn't part of golf getting away from the rat race?

People often say that new people don't persist playing golf because of three things: It is too hard, it is too expensive and and it is too time consuming. I would add, the game is no longer welcoming to beginners.

All of my friends left the golf course after about 4 rounds. They will not come back. Sad because their swings are getting pretty good.

I know because they invite me to their regular game where they are welcomed with open arms- Top Golf.

The thing that's bad for golf isn't "faster play", I don't believe that the speed of rounds has increased.  What is bad for golf is intolerant assholes, and it seems that you've found a few of those.  I'm sorry for the bad experience, but I think you handled their start in the world of golf as well as you possibly could have.  The only thing that could have improved the situation was to find an uncrowded course for the first few rounds, maybe at an off time, weekdays, whatever is least crowded.

[klineka]

To be quite frank, it sounds like you were at the wrong courses, especially one where the starter was discouraging players from playing (which is weird because without players playing, he/she wouldnt have a job).

It doesnt sound like you were holding anyone up, as long as your group let faster players through there was no need for demoralizing comments by others. I find it odd that your group consistently got demoralizing comments by multiple groups of people on 4 consecutive rounds.

Based on your location being Florida, I'm sure there were other golf courses around you could have tried, par 3 courses, executive courses etc, but still sucks to hear other golfers were being that rude to your friends.

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, colin007 said:

You mention you're a purist, because ironically golf never took this long back in the day.

Yeah. 4:14 is not fast. I played in a threesome the other day, waiting on most every hole, in 3:30.

10 minutes ago, colin007 said:

I personally would NEVER bring a newbie to a "real" course. I would go strictly to driving ranges and par 3 courses until they got the hang of things.

This. Or, @fburns, choose a better time when the course isn't as crowded.

8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The thing that's bad for golf isn't "faster play", I don't believe that the speed of rounds has increased.  What is bad for golf is intolerant assholes, and it seems that you've found a few of those.  I'm sorry for the bad experience, but I think you handled their start in the world of golf as well as you possibly could have.  The only thing that could have improved the situation was to find an uncrowded course for the first few rounds, maybe at an off time, weekdays, whatever is least crowded.

Right.

But at the same time, it's slightly irresponsible to take very new players out at a busy time.

But yes, I second what you said, too, @DaveP043.

[mcanadiens]

I can relate to feeling really nervous as a beginning golfer. It wasn't all that long a time ago for me.

It is very possible you and your guys just had a couple of roaring a-holes come your way that day, but different courses have different standards for pace of play. 4:14 sounds pretty damn good compared to anything I might expect during a weekend at the home courses. On the other hand, there are several others I occasionally play where closer to 3 hours would be expected. 

[Patch]

I have a couple of friends who use to golf, but no longer do, because of this (latent) movement towards faster play. 

Per the OP's thread title, faster play could hurt the game if, and when the slower players give up the game if they feel they are no longer welcome due to their lack of speed. I don't think they will be replaced in equal numbers by faster golfers. Fewer golfers equal higher green fees, and higher green fees equal fewer golfers. Due to lack of revenue, another course closes, and their golfers (fast and slow) move to the next course, which could cause slower play due to over crowding. 

I see more older golfers than younger golfers on the courses I play. If these older/slower golfers were to leave my home course, for what ever reason, the course would probably close down. There's  not  enough younger, faster players to replace them. 

I am not saying all, older golfers are slower, but with age we all do tend to slow down a little. As our handicaps rise, so does our pace of play.

As for those golfers who feel slower golfers should "take a hike", and get out of their way, I feel you are probably playing the wrong game for your attitude. It's too bad the OP's friends have encountered this type of golfer.

Since it was mentioned above, so as not be to far off topic, I know few younger people who won't try out the game of golf because the have heard/read that "golf is hard". Obviously they are taken the words out of context, but still, some potential golfers turning away. 

[BaconNEggs]

People can be jerks, unfortunately. It sounds like you were doing the right thing, and if you finished in 4:15 while letting people play through, and you were with beginners, that doesn't sound that horrible.

That being said, I don't think faster play is hurting the game. I virtually never see fast play. I see overcrowded courses with people who play far too slow and are either oblivious to the groups constantly waiting behind them, or are just entirely ignorant to the concept of letting faster players play through (or both).

Quote

As for those golfers who feel slower golfers should "take a hike", and get out of their way, I feel you are probably playing the wrong game for your attitude. It's too bad the OP's friends have encountered this type of golfer.

There's nothing wrong with slower golfers. However, just because someone shells out $50 or $100 or more to play a course does not mean they should be able to dictate the pace of play for everyone behind them, yet that seems to be the attitude many people have. "I paid good money to play, and I'm going to get my money's worth!" Slow play, or let's call it ignorant play, is a far worse and more pervasive problem-- I don't care if you play slow, as long as you let faster players through. You are SUPPOSED TO get out of their way-- it's basic golf etiquette. You can take 6 hours if you want, but the moment you think that your time is more important than everyone behind you, then you are the one with the attitude problem, imo.

https://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf/Etiquette/Pace-of-Play

• Play at a good pace and keep up: It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group.
• Be ready to play: Players should be ready to play as soon as it is their turn to play.
• Lost ball: Players searching for a ball should signal the players in the group behind them to play through as soon as it becomes apparent that the ball will not easily be found. They should not search for five minutes before doing so

Unfortunately there's no learners permit for basic golf etiquette, so you get people with the attitude that golf can be played at whatever lackadaisical pace you feel up to on the day, and everyone else can pound sand if they disagree. It doesn't seem like fburns is like this, he just encountered some bad hombres.

Edited May 31, 2018 by BaconNEggs

[cooke119]

Sounds to me like you started the new guys out right and 4:15 doesn't sound that bad especially if you are letting people play through. I have never encountered those types of comments even when I was learning. I play in a league of about 40 guys and gals and we all want to get to the 19th as fast as possible so we play a scramble and those over 65, or who have injuries like myself (back surgery) play from the golds. (Here in New York the tees are blue, white, gold and red). The gals all play from the reds. We're cognizant of the players behind us and if they are playing fast we let them through. Have not had any bad comments. We also play 'ready' golf. 

I can't believe the starter said something to you, I would talk to management about that!. Golf is all about fun, I hate hearing these stories of inconsiderate people on the course. I'm sure when they started they weren't that fast.

[NM Golf]

I have sounded off on this subject in the past. I personally don't understand the need to run around the course as fast as humanly possible. I played four times in the last five days. Twice I teed off in the first group of the day and walked 18 in around 3 hours. I had the kids at home and needed to get home to them as early as I could. It was either play fast or don't play at all.

The other two times I played later in the day and completed my round in just over 4 hours, we were right on the group in front of us, the pace of play was just slower. The longer rounds were considerably more enjoyable to me. I had no where to be on those rounds and I was able to relax and enjoy myself. 

Golf is odd in the fact that people really enjoy playing, but want to try and be done posthaste. Most enjoyable activities people tend to want to do as long as possible. I mean no one goes to get a message and tells the therapist to hurry. People don't go on vacation and hope the entire thing flies by. I mean look at sex, there is an entire line of products available for one reason, to prolong the act as long as you can! I play with old men who have NOTHING to do all day, yet they want to get in their round in less than three hours. They get done by 9 in the morning then sit around drinking coffee in the cafe for the next 3 hours because they don't want to go home.

In your case, pick times when the course isn't busy or times in the afternoon when people tend to be more relaxed and not as worried about playing at the speed of sound. I hope you can entice your buddies to return to the game.

Edited June 1, 2018 by NM Golf

[PFsGATORS]

Golf shouldn't be a race. On the other hand, what I played behind today was miserable. Played behind a 4 some in 2 carts, each cart would go to each players ball and so forth. On the green, one guy putted while the other 3 watched. Then, the player furthest away would walk to his ball and putt while the other 3 watched. IMO new golfers should be taught ready golf, being prepared to hit your shot as soon as your partner has hit his or hers.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Patch said:

I have a couple of friends who use to golf, but no longer do, because of this (latent) movement towards faster play.

Per the OP's thread title, faster play could hurt the game if, and when the slower players give up the game if they feel they are no longer welcome due to their lack of speed. I don't think they will be replaced in equal numbers by faster golfers. Fewer golfers equal higher green fees, and higher green fees equal fewer golfers. Due to lack of revenue, another course closes, and their golfers (fast and slow) move to the next course, which could cause slower play due to over crowding.

I see more older golfers than younger golfers on the courses I play. If these older/slower golfers were to leave my home course, for what ever reason, the course would probably close down. There's  not  enough younger, faster players to replace them.

I feel like you're talking about some sort of alternate reality. Some parallel universe.

There's virtually no movement toward "faster play." There's a movement, but there's no real movement if you get my point.

I'm not going to go on, but nearly every bit of that struck me as the opposite of what I see.

5 hours ago, Patch said:

I am not saying all, older golfers are slower, but with age we all do tend to slow down a little. As our handicaps rise, so does our pace of play.

Some of the fastest players with whom I've played are older, and some of the slowest are younger.

5 hours ago, Patch said:

As for those golfers who feel slower golfers should "take a hike", and get out of their way, I feel you are probably playing the wrong game for your attitude. It's too bad the OP's friends have encountered this type of golfer.

No, everyone's just got their own idea of what "time" is appropriate.

At the end of the day, the only opinion that should really matter is the course operator, and the etiquette that should pervade:

• The time par should be the slowest pace at which you should play.
• Even if you're playing at that pace, if you're holding up a faster group, let them through.

That's it. Is it appropriate to take 6 hours if you let everyone through? No, because letting people through is itself slightly disruptive. Some people don't like it. They can reasonably expect you'll play your round in the time par for the course.

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

I have sounded off on this subject in the past. I personally don't understand the need to run around the course as fast as humanly possible. I played four times in the last five days. Twice I teed off in the first group of the day and walked 18 in around 3 hours. I had the kids at home and needed to get home to them as early as I could. It was either play fast or don't play at all.

You don't seem to have realized you contradicted yourself.

You understood the need to "run around" (in about three hours) because otherwise you wouldn't have gotten to play.

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

The other two times I played later in the day and completed my round in just over 4 hours, we were right on the group in front of us, the pace of play was just slower. The longer rounds were considerably more enjoyable to me. I had no where to be on those rounds and I was able to relax and enjoy myself.

Nobody's really suggesting that three hours is a reasonable time par. Every time you bring up your opinion about "racing around the golf course" you're arguing against a straw man.

If you're behind someone in the checkout line, and they want to pay by check, is it annoying if they don't even get their checkbook out let alone have anything pre-written on the check before the total is told to them? Yes.

Just as it's annoying when players are stuck behind someone who routinely parks on the wrong side of the green, or leaves wedges all over in the wrong places, or pulls a putt back two or three times to practice it while you're waiting to hit your approach.

Golfers generally simply want their fellow players to play at a reasonable pace. Nobody needs to "run around" or "race around." Golf is a game of etiquette and respect for your fellow golfers. And I'm not saying that 4 hours is a poor pace (I'd be happy if four hours was expected and adhered to everywhere). But when it gets to five hours, six hours… that's ridiculous. If you think five hours is fine (I don't think you do, Dan, I'm using the general "you"), then you're in the minority.

I don't often enjoy rounds that take even four hours. I played in a foursome at Pittsburgh Field Club yesterday. The rough was thick. The greens were slick.  None of us were familiar with the course. We looked for golf balls. We stopped for 10 minutes at the turn (after 10, actually, where the shack is there) because nobody was behind us. We had four players, including one woman, playing from three separate tees.

We didn't rush. We holed out. We played in 3:30.

Must everyone play in 3:30? No. But 4:00 is not asking a lot. Baseball games, football games, basketball, hockey, etc. don't take four hours. Faster play = more revenue. Faster play lets more people play golf, like you could TWICE recently when you had to play in 3 hours or you couldn't play.

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Golf is odd in the fact that people really enjoy playing, but want to try and be done posthaste.

You continue to say things like that, too. And you're literally "wrong" about it.

But the amount of time you spend "playing" doesn't really change. If I shoot 70, and I'm by myself, I can do it (in a cart) in under 90 minutes. If I do it in a foursome and we take 4:30… I still spend the same exact amount of time actually playing golf.

The rest of the time is just walking around. Or waiting. Or looking for someone's ball. Or taking a leak. Or checking your phone. Or admiring the scenery.

You might counter with "what's the rush? I want to enjoy the scenery" but again you argued against yourself. Had you been unable to play in three hours twice the last week, you'd have missed out on six hours of "scenery." Not to mention the 130-140 shots of "golf" you got to hit during those rounds, too.

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

Most enjoyable activities people tend to want to do as long as possible.

That's not true.

I enjoy going to baseball games, but I enjoy watching baseball. I don't enjoy the waiting around between pitches. I enjoy eating, but I don't enjoy waiting for my food to arrive (nor do I enjoy cold food that's supposed to be warm).

There are other things to do in life. Like see your kids. Get back to your wife.

Slow play often stops someone from playing, like it would have for you, at all. Faster play leads to MORE play.

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

I mean no one goes to get a message and tells the therapist to hurry.

I'd wager that I could find plenty of people who would disagree with you there.

Plus, again, that's DOING the actual activity. Let's say your massage actually takes 15 minutes. The masseur is actually massaging for those 15 minutes. If your 15 minute massage lasted 90 minutes because the masseur took a 2 1/2 minute break after every 30 seconds of massaging, you'd be annoyed.

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

People don't go on vacation and hope the entire thing flies by.

You're actually doing the vacationing the entire time. You aren't on vacation for an hour, then waiting in an airport for the next four hours, then on vacation for an hour, then waiting again in an airport for four hours…

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

I play with old men who have NOTHING to do all day, yet they want to get in their round in less than three hours.

So?

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

They get done by 9 in the morning then sit around drinking coffee in the cafe for the next 3 hours because they don't want to go home.

Maybe they enjoy shooting the breeze with their buddies sitting around drinking coffee. They are allowed to be gone for six or seven hours, so if golf took five hours, they'd only have an hour to do something else they enjoy. And they'd not get any more actual golf in during that time.

[fburns]

Thanks for all of your responses. I agree that this is a difficult problem. It is clear that some believe that beginners should not be on a golf course but should be at driving ranges or par 3 courses. I can see how that would help slow play perhaps. But I don't think I would have fallen in love with this game if my introduction to it was just hitting balls at a range. It was the challenge of finally hitting it over the water or getting it out of a bunker. We all know that it only takes one moment where we hit "that shot" to bring us back. We have a par 3 course here in Sarasota and that may have been a better choice for beginners.

I personally believe that we have brought our fast paced world into a game that was originally an escape into nature and an opportunity to get some exercise, hang with friends and get some time to relax. But it seems that along the way, we have focused on speed rather than the experience. I know why golf courses want us to play faster ($ for them) but I don't understand why we are in such a hurry to get off the golf course. We don't pay by the hour. We don't measure our performance by our time. Honestly, I don't see a lot of people who are experiencing nature, exercise or relaxation. It seems golf for many is not an escape from a fast paced world but rather it is becoming much like rush hour traffic with everyone in golf carts rather than cars. It doesn't look to me like people come off of the course having enjoyed the experience. They look miserable.

Are we missing something about this incredible game? Is fast play really the goal or is it our impatience that we are wrestling with? I think more time appreciating the squirrels, trees and beauty would do a lot of people a lot of good yet we blow by it all in our carts while focusing on our GPS or smart phone and timing our round. Is that really what we want to show beginners? Is that really the game we want to play?

I long to return to the game I knew as a child. But I am not sure it really exists anymore, except in my mind.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by fburns
misspelled word

[Foot Wedge]

I gotta agree with some of the other posts that it sounds like a lot has to do with this particular course and its patrons.  I've taught my fiance how to play golf over the past year and I know for a fact that there are certain (most) courses that I would not take her to yet.  We've gone to a goat track that's very casual, and not crowded at all without any trouble or rush.  The one time we were right in front of someone, we kept insisting the other play through!  My fiance was learning, and he wanted a practice round.  There are a lot of beginners and families that go to play there and nobody gets frustrated.  Maybe take them to a course like this?

Also, why not have them play best ball?  They get the chance to be out on the course and hit shots, if it's no good, just pick up and use your ball.  Gets them out on the course and keeps it moving.  That's how I learned to play and it felt like a lot less pressure once I started playing my own ball.

[jsgolfer]

 

19 minutes ago, fburns said:

I personally believe that we have brought our fast paced world into a game that was originally an escape into nature and an opportunity to get some exercise, hang with friends and get some time to relax. But it seems that along the way, we have focused on speed rather than the experience. I know why golf courses want us to play faster ($ for them) but I don't understand why we are in such a hurry to get off the golf course. We don't pay by the hour. We don't measure our performance by our time. Honestly, I don't see a lot of people who are experiencing nature, exercise or relaxation. It seems golf for many is not an escape from a fast paced world but rather it is becoming much like rush hour traffic with everyone in golf carts rather than cars. It doesn't look to me like people come off of the course having enjoyed the experience. They look miserable.

@iacas hit on a lot of them in his post, people have other things to do outside of playing a round of golf that takes more than 4 hours.  Sometimes you need to play quickly so you can get your round in and still make it to the kids game, or see the wife or whatever else there is to do during the day.  I used to play a course, that would let us play a half hour before they opened, so that I could be done in under 3 hours and get home and spend the rest of the day with my family.  Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to play if it took 4.5 hours and I started at 9 am.

I guess you play different courses then I do, I've been playing golf for going on 37 years and don't remember ever running into a miserable golfer, other than if they played badly.

22 minutes ago, fburns said:

Are we missing something about this incredible game? Is fast play really the goal or is it our impatience that we are wrestling with? I think more time appreciating the squirrels, trees and beauty would do a lot of people a lot of good yet we blow by it all in our carts while focusing on our GPS or smart phone and timing our round. Is that really what we want to show beginners? Is that really the game we want to play?

Yes, this is the game I want to play.  And it's not a fast pace, its just a good pace.  And I walk the majority of the time unless I'm in a tournament.  

I am a very fast player, but I still I have plenty of time to take in the scenery while everyone else is getting to their ball and doing their preshot routine.  No need to stand in the grass and not pay attention to what you are trying to do.  I'm there to play golf, not bird and squirrel watch, although I see them all the time.  We have foxes running around the course most days.  If you play, just be ready when it's your turn, you'll have plenty of time to look around and marvel at nature.   A 4 hour round is not fast, 13 minutes a hole is a long time to stop and smell the roses.     

30 minutes ago, fburns said:

I long to return to the game I knew as a child. But I am not sure it really exists anymore, except in my mind.

I'm not sure it ever did, when I was a kid playing golf in the late 70's, I wanted to play quickly so I could go play another round.  I think lots of times, we pine for the days of old, but don't realize that the days of old are just that, old.  Things change and usually for the better IMO.

 

[mcanadiens]

18 minutes ago, Foot Wedge said:

Also, why not have them play best ball?  They get the chance to be out on the course and hit shots, if it's no good, just pick up and use your ball.  Gets them out on the course and keeps it moving.  That's how I learned to play and it felt like a lot less pressure once I started playing my own ball.

This is exactly what I'm going to do with some buddies of mine.

They've played the dog snot out our par-3 and will be giving the big course its maiden voyage on Sunday if the weather holds up. We'll definitely be playing best ball and match. That way one side can conceded when a hole is out of reach.

[BaconNEggs]

39 minutes ago, fburns said:

I personally believe that we have brought our fast paced world into a game that was originally an escape into nature and an opportunity to get some exercise, hang with friends and get some time to relax.

You can still do all of that without it being a 5 hour round. And as has been mentioned multiple times, when the rounds start getting that long, it removes the ability for some people to play at all. A lot of people don't have the time to play 5 hour rounds-- that can easily be a 6 or 7 hour day when you factor in commuting, warm up time, etc.

Which would you rather, a 3:30 round, or no golf at all? Because that's the option for a lot of golfers.

43 minutes ago, fburns said:

But it seems that along the way, we have focused on speed rather than the experience. I know why golf courses want us to play faster ($ for them) but I don't understand why we are in such a hurry to get off the golf course.

Again, because not everyone has all hours of the day to spend doing what amounts to a largely frivolous activity. A lot of us have 9-5 jobs during the week, and obligations during the weekend. Getting out for a 4 hour round can be downright difficult.

To be honest, I think you and others are being a bit... selfish, or lacking empathy for other perspectives here. It's clear that you don't mind slow rounds, or that perhaps that your definition of a slow round is different from my definition of a slow round. That's fine. What's not fine is your inability to understand that a 4 hour round to some people is a snail's pace. It's as if you can't grasp that not everyone agrees about what is slow or fast, on what is relaxing, on what is fun, and that your perspective is the only one that matters. And so you lament all these people rushing around... when I would guess that the vast majority of said people don't feel like they are rushing around. And they are enjoying it. And they are relaxing and having fun with friends.

Again, as to the question of whether faster play is hurting the game? The answer is an unequivocal no. The percentage of golfers who are driven away by the game because it's too fast is probably just north of 0%, while according to the USGA, slow play is one of the reasons some golfers are golfing less.

1 hour ago, fburns said:

I long to return to the game I knew as a child. But I am not sure it really exists anymore, except in my mind.

I've been playing for 20 years. Sure, not nearly as long as some of you, but I think your recollection is ass backwards. I remember the game being faster, not slower. I don't remember any 5 hour rounds from my youth. Now, I play more 5 hour rounds than 4 hour rounds... and yes, they are quite prohibitive and cause me to play less golf than I would like to.

[TRUCKER]

Most of the rounds I play are 3/12 hrs. I don't get the "4 hour round to some people is a snails pace." Really 1/2 hr. is the difference between a steady pace and snails pace?