Rolling Balls Yield More Aces

[Piz]

I know putts are a lot easier to make when you keep the ball on the ground.  The same "collection effect" likely applies to a non-putt.

[DaveP043]

55 minutes ago, colin007 said:

In the snow, with no shoes? Don't forget about having to whittle your own shafts....

Don't joke, a number of TSTers played at my course with snow falling.  

[colin007]

6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Don't joke, a number of TSTers played at my course with snow falling.  

Yikes!!!!

I was just joking, congrats on the eagle!!

[rehmwa]

an ace comes from the likelihood of the ball intercept the hole at a speed and angle where it stays put - the randomness is the path of the ball intercepting the location of the hole at that condition....

so:

• the rolling ball is touching ground the entire time
• vs a bouncing ball just touches a couple times (before it rolls much less) total 'touch the green' area is less
• the ground is where the hole is.........
• so the first part is easy - a rolling ball has more chance to hole out than bouncing ball as it intercepts more surface area of the green where a hole might just be located.....
• (all other things being equal)

2nd part - beginners get more aces?

• maybe?  the assumption is better players carry near the hole so they get a bounce....
• but better players have a closer shot distribution near the hole than bad players (when they are aiming at the hole and not somewhere smarter...)
• So the lower coverage (a couple touchdowns and then a shorter roll) of a shot that carries might apply to a 4th of a green where the ball is located has to compare to the beginner golfer (a much longer roll assumed) but maybe over the entire green?
• there's math here now, I'm not interested.
• I suspect beginner golfers get a lot more aces because there are a lot more beginner golfers

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by rehmwa

[Elmer]

2 hours ago, Grinde6 said:

I voted "no" simply because if the ball is rolling across the green, there is much more that could go wrong.  Spike mark, ball mark, slope, grain of sand, etc can all throw the ball off course.  With a one or two hopper there is much less influence and much of it depends on the spin.

I voted "yes" based on the opposite of your rationalization. 
We have all seen the 1 or 2 hops, they usually result in a birdie putt.
a rolling ball has more opportunity to allow fate and the golf G*ds to influence for any result.

Example:

A 1 or 2 hop ball hit 5 yards short of the green, is going to remain short.
A rolling ball 5 yards short of the green can end up anywhere, even in the cup!

[NJpatbee]

I buy the rolling ball concept but do not buy into the statement that higher handicaps get more aces since our balls are not nearly as close to the pin.  I have been playing for 26 years and as a mid-teen HCP golfer I have never had a hole in one.  How many does Tiger have?

[p1n9183]

Vote Yes. From now on i will hit driver in all par 3´s till my first hole in one. 

[GolfLug]

Isn't a thin shot that rolls on the green after flying unintentionally low flight like a regular shot + bonus putt? 😊.

Jokes aside, we have a lady at our club who has 4 aces. She rolls up most of her shots on to the green. So yeah...

Edited July 10, 2018 by GolfLug

[nevets88]

Do low ball hitters on the tour have more roll or do they stop as well? Trying to think of low ball hitters. Ollie last name I can't spell starts with an S. Alex Noren?

Maybe in theory, aces are more likely to happen for tour players on long par 3s where ball is coming in hotter?

That long par 3 in USO saw a bit of roll.

OTOH, you sit around on a short par 3 during a practice round though, man, they come close a lot.

[Patch]

I voted yes. A rolling ball offers the golfer more control than flying a ball to the hole. 

We are talking about hole in ones in this thread. Balls will be hit off of tees. The odds of a ball finding the hole without any roll, on the fly, has to be much higher, although I have seen it happen. 

[Jeremie Boop]

13 minutes ago, Patch said:

I voted yes. A rolling ball offers the golfer more control than flying a ball to the hole.

I don't know that I necessarily agree with this. It really depends on how much roll we are talking. The further it rolls the more variables are added giving less control about where the ball will end.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Jeremie Boop

[iacas]

1 hour ago, NJpatbee said:

I buy the rolling ball concept but do not buy into the statement that higher handicaps get more aces since our balls are not nearly as close to the pin.  I have been playing for 26 years and as a mid-teen HCP golfer I have never had a hole in one.  How many does Tiger have?

Nobody has said this.

[mcanadiens]

I agree. In addition to all those things others have said, consider this.

Higher handicaps are more likely to play on easier courses. Easier courses often are contoured to funnel the ball on to greens and towards pins. So I push my worm-burner right of the green, it hits a helpful bank, caroms onto the green and we're rolling.

[Patch]

18 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I don't know that I necessarily agree with this. It really depends on how much roll we are talking. The further it rolls the more variables are added giving less control about where the ball will end.

True, there are more variables involved, the longer the roll. However, not all those variables should be considered negatives. Some of those variables will help roll ball into the hole. 

A ball on the fly, or after one bounce going in the hole, has to have a more precise landing spot than a ball hit short with roll. It's alot like reading a pitch/chip shot. The golfer has a general landing area, that after landing, the green takes over the rolling part of the shot. 

[Jeremie Boop]

3 minutes ago, Patch said:

True, there are more variables involved, the longer the roll. However, not all those variables should be considered negatives. Some of those variables will help roll ball into the hole. 

A ball on the fly, or after one bounce going in the hole, has to have a more precise landing spot than a ball hit short with roll. It's alot like reading a pitch/chip shot. The golfer has a general landing area, that after landing, the green takes over the rolling part of the shot. 

Never said those variables were positive or negative, just said that it gives the golfer less control over the shot the longer it's rolling.

[Patch]

33 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I don't know that I necessarily agree with this. It really depends on how much roll we are talking. The further it rolls the more variables are added giving less control about where the ball will end.

True, there are more variables involved, the longer the roll. However, not all those variables should be considered negatives. Some of those variables will help roll ball into the hole. 

A ball on the fly, or after one bounce going in the hole, has to have a more precise landing spot than a ball hit short with roll. It's alot like reading a pitch/chip shot. The golfer has a general landing area, that after landing, the green takes over the rolling part of the shot. 

On another note. With all "Aces" there is also a bit of luck involved. Would an "Ace" on the fly, or one hopped require more luck than a rolling "Ace" off the tee?

[rehmwa]

30 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Never said those variables were positive or negative, just said that it gives the golfer less control over the shot the longer it's rolling.

You and Grinde6 keep saying that as if an ace were purely a matter of a perfectly executed shot and that things like a sunflower seed or a spike mark matter......

1 - It's a matter of getting it even on the surface to potentially intercept the hole location - I contend that this is an area defined by your best shot dispersion and that area is MUCH larger than a golf hole for the BEST of the best of pros.  Thus a spike mark just isn't part of the equation at all.

2 - the rest is luck - all the talk about little things that apply to a putt just don't count in terms of a ball from the tee box........those things could affect the rolling portion in both directions in terms of helping or hurting the results

Now a better striker might be able to more consistently hit the green, or even a specific area of the green.  But that's not the question in front of us.

Even then which shot covers a larger percentage of the possible pin positions from any day?  I'd contend that the red line indicates the larger coverage for the same player if he hits the two different options.  "rolling covers more ground" - the ground is where the hole 'might' be located.

Edited July 10, 2018 by rehmwa

[Jeremie Boop]

8 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

You and Grinde6 keep saying that as if an ace were purely a matter of a perfectly executed shot and that things like a sunflower seed or a spike mark matter......

1 - It's a matter of getting it even on the surface to potentially intercept the hole location - I contend that this is an area defined by your best shot dispersion and that area is MUCH larger than a golf hole.  Thus a spike mark just isn't part of the equation at all.

2 - the rest is luck - all the talk about little things that apply to a putt just don't count in terms of a ball from the tee box........those things could affect the rolling portion in both directions in terms of helping or hurting the results

Now a better striker might be able to more consistently hit the green, or even a specific area of the green.  But that's not the question in front of us.

Even then which shot covers a larger percentage of the possible pin positions from any day?  I'd contend that the red line indicates the larger coverage.

What in the world are you talking about..... I never said anything of the sort, I simply stated a fact, the longer the ball rolls the more variables are introduced. The more variables introduced the more luck involved. I never once said it took a perfect shot, as a matter of fact I specifically mentioned the HIO my father witnessed that rolled basically the entire way from the tee to hole. But if you are going to try to tell me that rolling one didn't take more luck then the one I witnessed that landed passed the pin by 6" and spun back in then I don't know what to say.