Assigning Credit and Blame in the Cups

[iacas]

I voted that the players get about 90% of the credit, and the captains and course setup combined account for about 10%.

[Vinsk]

I threw a bone to course set up only as it can influence a player who sucks off the tee when a course has very penal rough.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Vinsk
Technical foul

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I threw a bone to course set up only as it can influence a player who sucks off the tee when a course has very penal rough.

Yeah, but you assigned over 100%. 🙂

[Vinsk]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Yeah, but you assigned over 100%. 🙂

Damn it. Technical foul. Was supposed to be <10% option.

[iacas]

Just now, Vinsk said:

Damn it. Technical foul. Was supposed to be <10% option.

You can edit your poll votes.

[DaveP043]

I put most of the blame (or credit) on the players.  The captains control pairings, and that can have some influence.  I believe that everyone had an idea of what the course set up would be, so that gets the least possible vote, in my opinion.  Captains probably should have picked players who can play the set up well, and players HAVE to play the course appropriately.

[Sandy Divot]

I put zero on the course. It was the same course for both teams. The Euros seemed to find the fairway a lot. The US players couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. The only pairing that I thought was a real mistake was Phil and BAD in foursomes.

[Piz]

Itsalabowdaplayers.  The captain of the Titanic was going on recent form.  The U.S. cares less...and it shows.  Is that an indictment or an observation?

[boogielicious]

Players first and second and third. Coach a small amount for pairings. They all have to play the same course. Teams all have long hitters and shorter hitters. They all have to play from the same rough. So the course is not really a factor in my opinion.

[DeadMan]

I think it's about 85% the players, 10% the captain, and 5% the course setup. Captains influence by their captain's picks and then pairings. But still, it's mostly on the players. I think the course set up is pretty overrated. We've talked many times about how longer hitters are also generally straighter than shorter hitters. The course set up really should be a wash between the two teams. I saw a statistic on Saturday that the US hit 51% of fairways and Euro hit 56% of fairways. That's not a significant difference. It's about the players.

[phillyk]

Players are around 90% to blame and the captains, 9%, and course maybe 1%.  I don't want to blame the course for anything because every player is playing the same exact course.  If you are playing in the ryder cup, you should be able to play in any condition and score reasonably. But, I'm sure there is always something one could blame.  Alternate shot is where the captain has some responsibility.  You want to generally match players with matching games, so they'll have shots they would normally have.  Then again, like I said, they are the best players and they should have any and all those shots in the bag.  But, you still want to match strengths with strengths, not strengths with weaknesses.  Best ball, you can be more flexible with because they can all go out there and make birdies/pars with their own ball.  Ultimately, it's the players who either have their game that week or do not.

[HJJ003]

I am an 80/20 rule kind of guy. Since there are three options though I split my votes accordingly: 

80% Players

10% Captain

10% Course Set Up. 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 10/3/2018 at 7:23 PM, iacas said:

Yeah, but you assigned over 100%. 🙂

Oops! I did as well. Guess I'll have to go back and edit

On 10/3/2018 at 8:59 PM, DaveP043 said:

I put most of the blame (or credit) on the players.  The captains control pairings, and that can have some influence.  I believe that everyone had an idea of what the course set up would be, so that gets the least possible vote, in my opinion.  Captains probably should have picked players who can play the set up well, and players HAVE to play the course appropriately.

I feel the same way about the players. I assigned most of the blame to them. As far as captains "controlling" pairings, ummmm, I don't know about that. All you can do is submit your "batting order" and let the pairings fall where they may. It's all blind.

And I do think the course setup did contribute somewhat. The Euro captain had a lot of input there, and he used it successfully to handicap our "bomb and gouge" players. Think back about the flak the USGA caught for it's setup of Erin Hills.

[ghalfaire]

I give the players most of the credit (90%+) for the outcome.  They are the ones with the stick in their hands, not the Captain. As to the course set up.  Both sides have to play the same course under the same conditions.  These guys are professionals and I would think they have the ability and experience  to "adjust" their game to conditions.  I think the course set up had little if anything to do with the outcome.

[CarlSpackler]

I didn't see anywhere that the results had to total 100%, so I gave both players and coaches 90% of the blame. Both sides have to play the same course under the same conditions, so I don't see how that is a factor.

[p1n9183]

12 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I didn't see anywhere that the results had to total 100%, so I gave both players and coaches 90% of the blame. Both sides have to play the same course under the same conditions, so I don't see how that is a factor.

Player A: Nadal, the best on Clay.
Player B: Federer, the best on Grass.

If they play on grass Federar will have some advantange.
if they play on Clay Nadal will have some advantage.
If they play on hard it could be an even match.

Same with golf.. and type of course desing. Link, tree lined, wide, narrow, long, short... Some will suit better for some players than others. In this case the course suited better for Europe Team, in 2 year i´m sure the course will suit better the USA team.

Voted:
80% players
10% captain
10% course
 

[Bucki1968]

I gave a little more to course set up than most (20%). I think that the courses are going to be set up for the strength of each team as we have seen the past couple cups.  

[rehmwa]

"Blame"  what a crappy word.  It's not like they broke the law or ruined someone's life.

"responsibility" is even a tough one because you do everything right, it's still a game, and if everyone does it all right, only one team wins still - the ones that happened to play better that week.

maybe "factors" is what we mean and how much they contributed to the result....I'd go with players 100% - they either outplayed that round's competition, or got outplayed.  even if they played incredibly well.  it's match play after all.  Face it, if you play like shit, and still get the point, you get a pat on the back.  if you play like a god, and lose the point, someone in the media will still try to figure out how you 'failed'.

the fallout and discussions and media are pretty juvenile - just listen to every mature player commentary - every single one says the same thing - Europe play better that week.  that's about it - they don't go deeper unless arm twisted into it.  seem boring, but the media could learn from that instead of disregard it.

Edited October 12, 2018 by rehmwa