My Flagstick In vs. Out Data

[jsgolfer]

Flagstick Out!: The science behind why the flagstick should be pulled 99.9 percent of the time | Golf Equipment: Clubs, Balls, Bags | Golf Digest

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Ph.D. Research: Putting with the flagstick in only works for putts that strike stick dead center at high velocity

Different conclusion then Dave Pelz.    

 

[colin007]

Hmm

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

Flagstick Out!: The science behind why the flagstick should be pulled 99.9 percent of the time | Golf Equipment: Clubs, Balls, Bags | Golf Digest

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Ph.D. Research: Putting with the flagstick in only works for putts that strike stick dead center at high velocity

Different conclusion then Dave Pelz.

As discussed previously (like 2019 when this was a topic of discussion), that article has a number of flaws.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

As discussed previously (like 2019 when this was a topic of discussion), that article has a number of flaws.

Not to mention, this article was written 3 years ago, its not exactly news.  

[jsgolfer]

48 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Not to mention, this article was written 3 years ago, its not exactly news.  

Oh, didn't notice the date, it popped up in my news feed. Thought it was something new.

[Carl3]

Then Dave Pelz in Golf Digest says the opposite a year later:

Dave Pelz: The science proves you should leave the flagstick in when you putt - Golf

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Dave Pelz looks at the sceince and says you'd be a fool not to putt with the flagstick in, following the USGA's rule change for 2019.

Erik's experiment made sense. I couldn't follow the PhD's methodology. 

5 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

Flagstick Out!: The science behind why the flagstick should be pulled 99.9 percent of the time | Golf Equipment: Clubs, Balls, Bags | Golf Digest

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Ph.D. Research: Putting with the flagstick in only works for putts that strike stick dead center at high velocity

Different conclusion then Dave Pelz.    

 

 

[saevel25]

Unless the pin is leaning, or it is windy that the flag is moving around a lot, I leave it in for anything over 5-FT. If the ball hits the pin, and it bounces off, the odds of it going in with out the pin is non existent. 

Also, I like the flag in on lag putts. It helps out with depth perception. You know the flag is 7-8' tall. Another piece of information is important. I mean, PGA Tour players would have caddies tend the flag. 

[Double Mocha Man]

So there is still no definitive answer on in or out.

[ChetlovesMer]

10 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

So there is still no definitive answer on in or out.

What's more amazing about that is the number of people I still see and hear say "If only the flag would have been in..." or "If only the flag would have been out..." 

Just last week at league there was another one. A guy I'm playing with hits the flag stick while his putt is rolling like 65 mph. It bangs off the stick and of course doesn't go in. He's 100% convinced that it would have gone in had the stick been removed. Meanwhile, I'm thinking I'm 100% sure the ball would have rolled off the green had the flag been removed. 

I see it the other way too. Where it doesn't go in and the guys convinced it would have if the stick had been there. 

What I wonder is:

1. Are these people insane?
2. Do they not understand physics?
3. Are they just delusional about whether or not the "deserve" to make a putt? 
4. All of the above? 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

I'm beginning to think that whoever studies this thing, whatever tests they come up with, that one or the other will have you make one more putt every 10 rounds.  And we don't really know which of the two techniques that is!

Personally, all of 2019 when the rule went into effect, I left the flag in.  Didn't sense any difference.  Ended up going back "old school" and even sometimes from far away, asking someone to tend the flag, for point of reference and depth perception reasons.

I played golf too many years... high school, college, casual, and having flag out just feels better.

I've got a few of my buddies "trained" to pull the flag for me even when they leave it in for themselves.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Double Mocha Man

[ChetlovesMer]

6 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I'm beginning to think that whoever studies this thing, whatever tests they come up with, that one or the other will have you make one more putt every 10 rounds.  And we don't really know which one that is!

Personally, all of 2019 when the rule went into effect, I left the flag in.  Didn't sense any difference.  Ended up going back "old school" and even sometimes from far away, asking someone to tend the flag, for point of reference and depth perception reasons.

I played golf too many years... high school, college, casual, and having flag out just feels better.

I've got a few of my buddies "trained" to pull the flag for me even when they leave it in for themselves.

I pretty much leave it in... unless I don't. 

[Double Mocha Man]

6 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I pretty much leave it in... unless I don't. 

Finally, a definitive answer!!!

[iacas]

51 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

So there is still no definitive answer on in or out.

Depending on your definition of “definitive,“ I think there is.

If you are certain your speed will not be an issue, take it out. If you’re not certain, leave it in.

[mdl]

On 9/25/2019 at 7:14 AM, iacas said:

That "study" was bullshit and was discussed and debunked several times on this site (and elsewhere). The charts didn't even make sense.

Mind pointing to that? Reading through it seemed not very carefully done, but I didn't try to deep dive on it. Would be interested to see the deep dive response.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, mdl said:

Mind pointing to that? Reading through it seemed not very carefully done, but I didn't try to deep dive on it. Would be interested to see the deep dive response.

I mean, it's somewhere. You could find it in probably the same amount of time as I could.

But also, I'm a bit dubious about some of his claims. Balls at 4.5' past speed always went in even when off-center? Hmmmm.

[boogielicious]

3 hours ago, Carl3 said:

Then Dave Pelz in Golf Digest says the opposite a year later:

Dave Pelz: The science proves you should leave the flagstick in when you putt - Golf

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Dave Pelz looks at the sceince and says you'd be a fool not to putt with the flagstick in, following the USGA's rule change for 2019.

Erik's experiment made sense. I couldn't follow the PhD's methodology. 

 

And the article didn’t say whether the author was awarded their PhD either! 😜 I’m sure you’ve met a few PhDs that were useless two Carl!

[colin007]

It absolutely helps.

[chop]

I like it in and out but mostly out. It depends on the putt and if the pin is leaning and my confidence level on any given putt.  I've missed putts with the pin that I thought would have gone in and didn't and vice versa. 
When playing with average golfers I will say take it out on a hole and the other guys never say put it back in after I putt.  I like it out mostly. It's a better visual for me with no distractions like shadows or leaning pins. The hole just looks more receptive without a pin in. So, I ignore the data although I appreciate it. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by chop