Let's Toughen These Courses Up for the Pros

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Rick Graham said:

You're right, and I am interested in seeing what changes are made for next weeks setup, I'm sure Jack will let the rough grow a little more and firm up the greens a little if there is not alot of rain this week, unless they are not using all the tee's this week what more can they do?

They also used different tees this week. Different hole locations. Rough, greens. Water.

[boogielicious]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

They also used different tees this week. Different hole locations. Rough, greens. Water.

So I assume the landing zones are different too so there won’t be issues with divots next week, correct?

[phillyk]

18 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I'd have to hunt down my scorecard, but it was high 80s-low 90s.  When I played, there were no issues on the green except for one--the par 3 with the tree.  In fact, we couldn't step foot on that green.  We hit our shots and staff folks would retrieve our ball.  They did something like, if you hit the green you got a 2 putt par and if you were inside 10' then you got a birdie.  The reason being was because there was an invasion of a species of grass not native to the course and was wreaking havoc.  They tried to stop the spread.  When I played, the course was beautiful and in great shape.  Rough was tough, but it was an awesome trip.

Poa was invading and they wanted to keep everything fescue prior to the US Open, obviously it didn't work well.  They already re-seeded all the greens to poa and they putt extremely nice now.  They are letting the fairways be naturally taken over.   Haven't played since last year.  Honestly, Chambers hasn't really played that hard for me unless they make the greens very firm. 

[TourSpoon]

So to the OPs point, there is something to be said about appropriate risk/reward, a challenging tournament setup, and obviously the majors. Of course there is nothing wrong with a birdie fest tourney every now and then, but I wouldn't want to see that every week either. Good golf is just that and we all have our preferences. 

[colin007]

Hey @Rick Graham are you THE Rick Graham???

[ncates00]

1 hour ago, TourSpoon said:

there is something to be said about appropriate risk/reward

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, TourSpoon said:

challenging tournament setup

I can take it or leave it.  There are also different ways of doing this, so I would need specifics.  I don't like to watch tournaments where if you miss the fairway you have to chip out.  It's just not fun to watch.  I'm not saying I want to watch driver and a wedge all day either.

 

1 hour ago, TourSpoon said:

birdie fest tourney every now and then, but I wouldn't want to see that every week either.

Meh.  I don't care either way.  I like to watch good golf.  

[ShawnSum]

It'll be tougher this week and now that the Workday Open is over let's take a look at a few things....

• 51 players who made the cut finished at below -10.
• 16 players who made the cut finished at -10 or better.
• 1st and 2nd place finished at -19.
• 3rd place was 4 strokes behind 1st and 2nd place at -15.

I think the course was tough enough and the guys who played well definitely separated themselves from the rest of the field. It's not like 50% of the field are murdering the golf course and all in contention at -20 or better. If these kind of scores bother you then do yourself a favor and never watch the Korn Ferry Tour.

[Beastie]

I don’t think it matters what the winning score is. What I like to see is the courses on tour presenting a variety of challenges. Courses like Bay Hill, Harbour Town, Bethpage Black, Pebble Beach are all different and difficult. Course like Detroit, Kapalua and La Quinta are normally easier but are all different. Variety is the spice of golf.

[klineka]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:00 PM, Rick Graham said:

back in the day, you had to WIN to make the big money, now you can cruise around in 20th place and be a millionaire.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the course difficulty, but rather the increase in purse size...

[Aguirre]

It's important to remember that during this restart of the tour, these courses are mostly being played at different times of the year. That has contributed to lower scores. 

[Slim_Pivot]

Looks like @Rick Graham will get his wish today!

If I was @Rick Graham, I would make the argument that “the great Jack Nicklaus” agrees with him on the scoring

[BC-to-MI]

I think watching a birdie fest every single week can get a bit boring, but so would watching everyone struggle to break par every single week. Frankly, with the conditions the way they are now and the wind picking up, I don't find it particularly entertaining to watch tour pros repeatedly hit bailout wedges from the fairway to 35+ feet because they can't attack any pins.

Edited July 19, 2020 by BC-to-MI

[70sSanO]

8 hours ago, BC-to-MI said:

...I don't find it particularly entertaining to watch tour pros repeatedly hit bailout wedges from the fairway to 35+ feet because they can't attack any pins.

I agree.  Once Rahm was up all he needed to do was play close to par.  No one was able to really challenge him.

Finish to Workday was so much more fun to watch.

Except Bryson’s Kevin Costner impersonation.  It was fun to watch him stick to his guns to point of missing the cut.

John

Edited July 20, 2020 by 70sSanO

[klineka]

4 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

Once Rahm was up all he needed to do was play close to par. 

The same could be said for JT last week, except JT bogeyed 2 of the last 3 holes where this time Rahm got up and down for par on the final two holes and holed out on the 16th for what ended up being a bogey save.

7 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

Finish to Workday was so much more fun to watch.

The only reason it was so exciting was because JT played poor golf down the stretch and today Rahm didn't. 

The overall finish to Workday was one of the most exciting finishes that's happened in a PGA tournament recently so yeah of course a playoff where guys are draining 25 and 50 footers on top of each other is going to be more exciting.

The amount Rahm won by and the way he played and finished on a really tough course carries more significance to me than Morikawa winning on an easier setup after being gifted an opportunity for a playoff and winning in the playoff.

[BC-to-MI]

12 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

I agree.  Once Rahm was up all he needed to do was play close to par.  No one was able to really challenge him.

 

11 hours ago, klineka said:

The same could be said for JT last week, except JT bogeyed 2 of the last 3 holes where this time Rahm got up and down for par on the final two holes and holed out on the 16th for what ended up being a bogey save.

The only reason it was so exciting was because JT played poor golf down the stretch and today Rahm didn't. 

Yeah, my issue isn't at all with how Rahm/JT approached the course. They played it exactly how you should with a big lead late, JT just didn't execute. I just get less out of it when the guys who are chasing don't have the option to fire at pins in an attempt to make up the deficit. Again, I like a mix of both, and I will admit that generally tougher conditions lead to better players at the top of the leaderboard, which is what I get the most enjoyment out of watching.

[mclaren4life]

What metric are you using to qualify somebody as a better player? I don’t like when there isn’t a real chance for somebody to make a legitimate attempt to come back from 2 or 3 strokes. Generally, nothing is more boring than watching a final round with a guy just getting pars to keep his lead and everybody else unable to move up because the course doesn’t lend itself to that. There are exceptions to that but for the most part that is how I feel. 

[klineka]

6 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

I don’t like when there isn’t a real chance for somebody to make a legitimate attempt to come back from 2 or 3 strokes. 

Palmer had that chance though, he didn't execute and Rahm did. Had Palmer made that putt on 16 and not bogeyed 17 and Rahm not gotten up and down on either 17 or 18 they would have been tied.

9 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

What metric are you using to qualify somebody as a better player?

Everyone probably has slightly different things they look at, but I look at performance/results in tournaments against similar fields and then a number of strokes gained statistics to compare players (when comparing players right now, it changes slightly when comparing them over their careers)

[colin007]

Yeah, the back 9 on Sunday at Augusta sucksssssssssssss....