Walking Off the Green Early

[iacas]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I've read that this practice is endorsed in some junior golf circles, as a pace of play thing, but have never seen it myself.  I do wonder how he can attest the score of another player if he doesn't stick around to watch them finish, at least most of the time.  

It's definitely a junior golf thing.

Pace of Play

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The Philosophy

Quote

• The first player to hole out should go toward the next tee and be the first to tee off. The second player to finish should replace the flagstick.

Yeah.

[saevel25]

It bothers me more when people hang out around the green. Like marking down their score or putting one club away. You can hop in the cart and move along to the next tee.

I definitely start to walk towards the cart or my pushcart as people are finishing up putting. I try to be aware of my position and when someone is putting, but I think it helps with pace. The faster you can head to the next tee the sooner the other group behind you can hit while you are on your way. 

[Bonvivant]

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I definitely start to walk towards the cart or my pushcart as people are finishing up putting. I try to be aware of my position and when someone is putting, but I think it helps with pace. The faster you can head to the next tee the sooner the other group behind you can hit while you are on your way. 

But what good does that do when the course is full? At my muni, I wait on almost every hole when it is full. Why would I wan't to walk/ride up on someone mid-shot on the tee box? Just to let the guys behind hit in and create even more of a wait for them? @iacas had a really good post about the traffic snake effect and how it pertains to golf, and unless your group is well behind, you are adding to the backup. Tee shots are some of the quickest shots in golf for most people because there isn't as much to calculate (lie, specific distance, etc.), so getting to the next box 1 minute earlier only to wait doesn't make much sense, especially when it could be distracting or agitating to your playing partner(s).

Someone walking off the green while I am putting is one of the few things that actually distracts me on course. Auditory distractions and other on green distractions, maybe someone replacing their ball after cleaning or lining up a shot, have far less of an effect on me that someone walking/riding off. Unless your group is enough behind to where the person that leaves the green can actually tee off, it really doesn't make any sense to do this. Even in that situation, I think it shows a lack of respect for the other players in the group, but at least there is a reason for it.

[darthweasel]

if I am playing with one of those people who insists on marking every missed putt, looking above and below and beside the hole, carefully lining up the line on their ball again, and missing by 4' again, only to redo the process...after a couple holes I have no qualms whatsoever about moving towards the next hole, particularly in casual play. I probably go too far to the other extreme...unless there is visible dirt on the ball, it is in its own pitchmark, or it is in the line or sightline of someone else I never mark my ball. Getting to the green only to have someone miss 10' short from 20' after the above routine, miss 6' short after the above routine, have a 2' putt and still have to do the routine...I sound like a tour guide. "And we're walking"

 

As someone mentioned above, if I am walking and guys are in carts, and I have holed out, I am over at the fringe, when they leave a 1' tap in, I might start walking away then.

 

The ones that drive me nuts are the ones that leave carts in front of the green, their chipping tool at the back, finish putting, wait for everyone else to finish, then go get their club, move to the cart, sit there for interminable amounts of time filling out their card, and only start to the next box when everyone else is already there.

 

Grrr.

[lastings]

20 hours ago, phillyk said:

That was it too, he would stand on the tee and wait for for us to get there. If he had honors, he may not have even tee’d up his ball yet when we get there.  Pace wasn’t going to be much affected.

It's a possibility that he wasn't even conscious he was doing it.  some people can get so focused in tournaments they barely even remember there is someone else in their group. 

[Patch]

I usually don't wait before walking to my bag, which is off the green. I'm putting my club(s) away, cleaning them, or maybe getting a drink. Maybe a restroom break is needed. What ever the reason, I justify it as a positive pace of play move. That, or getting ready for "ready golf".  

That said, I usually travel to the next tee box with the other players I'm with.  

I don't see leaving the green early as being no different than heading for my next shot, as soon as I hit my previous one. It's really no big deal. 

[dennyjones]

I don't know the correct etiquette but I've always waited and watched everyone putt out unless we are trying to play through a group.    I'm not sure how I'd feel if I was the only person on the putting green, it's not happened to me....yet.

[bkuehn1952]

We are talking about Tournaments and competitions, not casual play. I understand the idea in junior golf of the first player holing out and going to the next tee AND teeing off to assist pace of play.  To me, once one is an adult and playing in a tournament, one stays around the green because one is marking for another player.

In casual play, I have no big issue with a player moving to the next tee before I have putted out as long as they are not making noise or moving in my field of vision.

 

 

 

[Hardspoon]

I find this thread interesting.  Now that tending/replacing the flag isn't a thing anymore, I tend to putt out and walk off the green (usually to my push-cart, since I try to walk whenever possible)...I try to watch the remaining players putt out, but not actually wait for them on the green.

It always feels odd, and I always wonder if they find it rude.

Many times, I'm the only walker in my group, and the "head start" helps me get moving towards the next tee to match the pace of those in carts.  But, it still feels weird and I tend to make sure I'm looking back while they putt.

(EDIT: this is all in casual play)

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Hardspoon

[gbogey]

4 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

I find this thread interesting.  Now that tending/replacing the flag isn't a thing anymore, I tend to putt out and walk off the green (usually to my push-cart, since I try to walk whenever possible)...I try to watch the remaining players putt out, but not actually wait for them on the green.

It always feels odd, and I always wonder if they find it rude.

Many times, I'm the only walker in my group, and the "head start" helps me get moving towards the next tee to match the pace of those in carts.  But, it still feels weird and I tend to make sure I'm looking back while they putt.

(EDIT: this is all in casual play)

 

Same here - since I often walk among riders I tend to go to my push cart, put putter / clubs away, and mark my score while watching anyone else putt out. My purpose is to be ready to go once everyone is done so I don't hold anyone up by being a walker, but I agree I wonder if others find it rude.

[Mr22putt]

On 8/5/2020 at 12:32 PM, phillyk said:

I know on the PGA Tour, some pros will walk off to the next tee early, but it seems rare.  They usually hang out on the edge of the green when they finish, to wait for the other guys.  I played in a tournament recently, and it annoyed me a little at first, but then I sort of got used to it.  The amateur that I was paired with (kid headed off to college golf), when he holes out, will immediately walk off the green and head to the next tee.  Doesn’t wait for us to finish or anything.  I would understand if it were a pace issue, but the rounds were played is 4.5hrs or less, which was nice.  It wasn’t just him either, I saw others doing the same.  I don’t know if they were pros or ams though.

Is it a competition mindset thing? At first I thought it was bad sportsmanship or something, but I doubt he or any others mean it that way.  I think of these competitions as something fun to go play in.  Him it was all business, it seemed like. I couldn’t bring myself to do it when I finished first on a hole.  Just didn’t seem right.

This is a tournament and not a casual rd....in that case...IMO...it is bad form for an opponent to walk off early and head over to the next tee. This kid...likely a teen should still know better.

You're obviously upset enough to take the time to post about it...why didn't you say something to him?

You are a class A PGA professional and also a Director of Instruction.....not that one requires the 2 prior credentials to speak up....but the teen should be listening to what you or others have to say about ...IMO...a lack of tournament etiquette.

[TourSpoon]

This has proven to be an interesting topic. I even went as far to check out the AJGA website and how they promote speedy golf and they are clear on the issue that they want the first golfer that putts out to head to the tee and tee off. That's great because these tournaments are teaching that the first rule of golf should be don't delay. I think its probably 2 fold in nature, to promote ready golfers and to get the kids off the course in a reasonable amount of time to return the course to the people that pay the bills. 

Now whether its rude or not is up to debate. I tend to collect my wedges or help others pick up their equipment and hang out just off the green closest to the path to the next hole. I have been that guy that has skulled one out of the bunker and while I am walking to my next shot everyone has putted out and then you are the guy finishing by yourself. It doesn't happen often and its a different vibe when you chip on and putt out by yourself. I don't think its ever happened when partners have cleaned up and someone has a 4 footer and everyone just leaves. That just seems kind of rude. 

It does make sense that this kid is all business getting ready for college golf but he's not playing the AJGA circuit anymore and he is not teeing off first unless he has honors. If he figured that out then he probably needs to figure out that in order to attest a score he needs to be in the proximity of the hole watching his playing partners hole out. 

Now if it happened to me I would engage in some friendly talk after the round and then ask him to recall how many putts I took on the 7th hole and then coach him up. In the end he is a kid and he is doing what he was taught and if done right it could be a teachable moment. Then again, depending on his overall demeanor, I might not even bring it up. 

 

[Papa Steve 55]

I mostly walk. If there are riders I tend to head to the next tee when I hole out, if its a bit of a walk. One of the etiquette things I was taught early on was that the first guy to hole out tends to the flag. That does not seem to be wide spread though, and today is moot. 

[DaveP043]

3 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

Now if it happened to me I would engage in some friendly talk after the round and then ask him to recall how many putts I took on the 7th hole and then coach him up. In the end he is a kid and he is doing what he was taught and if done right it could be a teachable moment. Then again, depending on his overall demeanor, I might not even bring it up. 

I think this is solid advice.  I don't think it would be a good thing to make an issue on the course, but a quiet word after the round is over might help the youngster realize that the AJGC way isn't necessarily going to be the "right way" to do things as he moves on.

[BeCu]

For competition I always quietly wait off the green to attest to how the others finish the hole. For casual rounds I may walk a little further but still where I can attest to playing partners (caveat if its a practice only type round/late afternoon time frame) but remain quiet out of respect. That is how I was taught and mentored.

Both my sons played junior golf and I remember the first time we were called out by a tournament director about not "keeping pace". I was like, we are playing relatively fast, boys are making birdies what is the problem? The tournament director indicated that to ensure pace of play the boys needed to learn to hole out and go to next tee box immediately. I am thinking how do they learn to attest to their competitors score? Regardless that was the direction. When I caddied I would hang close to observe other players putt outs. I never have been comfortable with this approach but it seems more and more common. 

[phillyk]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think this is solid advice.  I don't think it would be a good thing to make an issue on the course, but a quiet word after the round is over might help the youngster realize that the AJGC way isn't necessarily going to be the "right way" to do things as he moves on.

Are we sure the AJGA thinks this action should change as they get older? It'd be odd for them to preach something like this and expect it to change later on.

At the time, I wasn't sure that my way was the "right" way. I really hadn't seen this action widely done before. But obviously he has a different experience. He did get all my scores right, except he forgot one of my birdies.

So maybe the "new" way is start walking but peak at the player you scoring for to attest?

I don't necessarily like this way because it hurts the social aspect of the game, I think.  The green is where a lot of smack talk or polite talk happens.  I remember reading that camaraderie is a very important aspect of the game for people.  Even in tournaments, I enjoy being social with people.  If we are pushing pace so much by having people walk away early, does it hurt the social game?  (edit - this is the main thing for me, it was hard to talk with  the kid because he always walked ahead)There are other times to talk, true, but it's more of the mentality that we have to constantly push.  Be smart and play readily. I don't think there's any reason to leave the group to tee off.  The other question could be is this action only used in tournaments or recreational or both?

Edited August 7, 2020 by phillyk

[Bonvivant]

So I've thought about this some more, and the more I think about it the less I like it. Say they do walk off, go to the next tee and their first ball goes OB (they hits cause no one is in range in front). You get to the tee and see them hit what should be his third but to you it looks like their first. This could only happen if there is sufficient distance/woods to muffle sound between the green and the tee, but on top of them not seeing your final putts, you may not see/hear their tee shot.

[mcanadiens]

2 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

So I've thought about this some more, and the more I think about it the less I like it. Say they do walk off, go to the next tee and their first ball goes OB (they hits cause no one is in range in front). You get to the tee and see them hit what should be his third but to you it looks like their first. This could only happen if there is sufficient distance/woods to muffle sound between the green and the tee, but on top of them not seeing your final putts, you may not see/hear their tee shot.

Yeah. That's the practical reason why you stay with your group on the green and the tee.

Funny actually. 

We're talking about sticking around the green as a matter of manners. What the real purpose always had been was to make sure the little bastard eventually holes the ball and counts every stab it took him to do it.