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Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

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6 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

Not exactly. First if he WINS, which is what everyone here thinks. 

:doh:

Buddy, enough… You said he loses his exemption (for winning in 2008) if he doesn't play. He loses it regardless as his ten years are up.

He can get a new, different exemption in a number of ways, including being in the top 60 OWGR next year. Hell, he may be in the top 60 OWGR THIS year for all we know.

6 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

He also has a shot to get an exemption agreed upon by the USGA and he may have a better shot at that next year if he actually plays this year.

I don't think whether he plays this year would change the USGA giving him an exemption next year. There's virtually no chance that, if he wanted to play next year and couldn't, that he wouldn't be given an exemption.

6 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

Nope. The motion which the fusion prevents is taken up somewhere else causing other joints to deteriorate faster. And muscles to work harder. Potentially leading to injuries at other spinal vertebral levels. And with the stress he's placing on himself, that is likely. He hasn't realized he's not a young man anymore.

You do understand that the joint is only capable of a few degrees of rotation, right?

6 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

And Tiger isn't being careful. 

:sigh: Welcome to TST. I didn't know we had one of the four or five people who might know this much detail about Tiger Woods life as a member. :-P

I disagree with your "diagnosis," as do the actual doctors with whom I've talked.

6 minutes ago, RussUK said:

Sorry, but i worked in the Spinal team at J&J medical. The ALIF op sorts the spinal issue, the body can then make compensations on order to carry out the same motion it did prior to surgery.

Providing the correct excercise regime is carried out to strengthen the muscles and joints compensating for the fused vertebrae then barring him doing something stupid he should be good to play till a ripe old age.

The amount of spinal ops both ALIF and TLIF our guys were involved in that were sports related was high. Main goal of the op is simple....to keep the patients quality of life as it was or better and that includes getting them back to sport.

Also, i dont think he'll win the US Open so not all of us think that :-P

I don't think he will either. I voted 1 regular PGA Tour event win, 0 majors in 2018.

But thank you for an actual, relevant medical opinion.

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3 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

Which can cause issues due to the compensation if not careful. And Tiger is not being careful. 

If you had quoted me in full you would noted the following

 

5 minutes ago, RussUK said:

 

Providing the correct excercise regime is carried out to strengthen the muscles and joints compensating for the fused vertebrae then barring him doing something stupid he should be good to play till a ripe old age.

 

 

He wouldnt even be swinging a golf club, let alone playing on tour,  had ne not been cleared to do so.

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Even if the unlikely happens and Tiger doesn't get within top 60 by next year's US Open, take a look at the list of players who's been given multiple exemptions by the USGA before.

Quote

USGA special exemptions
The USGA has granted a special exemption to 34 players 52 times since 1966.[9] Players with multiple special exemptions include: Arnold Palmer (1978, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1994), Seve Ballesteros (1978, 1994), Gary Player (1981, 1983), Lee Trevino (1983, 1984), Hale Irwin (1990, 2002, 2003), Jack Nicklaus (1991, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000), Tom Watson (1993, 1996, 2000, 2003, 2010).[10]

If Tiger is playing somewhat well and happens to be just outside of top 60 by the time of qualification, and is healthy and wants to play, I see no reason why they wouldn't give him an excemption. Hell, they could do it just to pump up the ratings.

Not that I believe he will be outside of top 60 by that time, if he's indeed healthy enough to play. His advancement on the OWGR since returning is heavily indicating that he will be inside top 60 pretty soon.

Masters Tournament  88th
Arnold Palmer Invitational 105th
Valspar Championship  149th
The Honda Classic  389th
Genesis Open  544th
Farmers Insurance Open 539th
Hero World Challenge 668th

And still, we're talking about the US Open 2020, which is well over a year away.

Every player that qualifies for the Tour Championship in 2018 will also get a spot at the 2019 US Open. Tiger is currently 42nd and could well get into top 30.

On the topic of Tiger's chances, nobody is saying he will definitely win, which nobody obviously can't. All we're saying is he's got a chance to win a tournament and even a major if the game is there. He's finished T23, MC, 12, T2, T5 and T32 in 2018. Of course someone with that record has a shot at winning a major.

Edited by Zeph

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10 minutes ago, Zeph said:

And still, we're talking about the US Open 2020, which is well over a year away.

2019, but yeah.

10 minutes ago, Zeph said:

Every player that qualifies for the Tour Championship in 2018 will also get a spot at the 2019 US Open. Tiger is currently 42nd and could well get into top 30.

Another way, yep.

10 minutes ago, Zeph said:

On the topic of Tiger's chances, nobody is saying he will definitely win, which nobody obviously can't. All we're saying is he's got a chance to win a tournament and even a major if the game is there. He's finished T23, MC, 12, T2, T5 and T32 in 2018. Of course someone with that record has a shot at winning a major.

A chance = a shot, yes, agreed.

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1 hour ago, RussUK said:

If you had quoted me in full you would noted the following

If you would have read what I wrote carefully, you would have not felt the need to qualify what I said. 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I disagree with your "diagnosis," as do the actual doctors with whom I've talked.

I'm a physician. You? I see what he does to himself on the course, despite his back. He is being careless and dangerous. If he continues this way, he will not last long. Jeez, you own this site? For real? 

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4 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

I'm a physician. You?

The "doctors with whom I've talked" specialize in treating athletes and/or specialize in spinal injuries/surgery.

I never claimed to be a physician. That's why I talk to people who are.

4 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

I see what he does to himself on the course, despite his back. He is being careless and dangerous. If he continues this way, he will not last long. Jeez, you own this site? For real? 

Willing to place a wager on that one?

Spell out the wager, including how long "not long" is, and I imagine you'll have a bunch of people willing to take your money.

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7 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

I'm a physician. You? I see what he does to himself on the course, despite his back. He is being careless and dangerous. If he continues this way, he will not last long. Jeez, you own this site? For real? 

Ok, there are differences of opinion, which are fine and then there are utterly unnecessary comments like your last line, which aren't helpful. Might I suggest you read this (the title isn't aimed at you, but I think the content could help):


With regard to Tiger, here's my take:

  • I still think he'll win this year, but he will definitely get close. His form has been so much better than expected.
  • I think he makes the cut at Shinnecock, but not much more than that. Can see his driving accuracy really costing him there.
  • I wouldn't be too surprised to see him win a major in 2019 or 2020, if he carries on the trajectory he's started this year.

However you look at it, it's so much more exciting than his previous 'comebacks'. Remember this?

 

Edited by b101
Added YouTube clip

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18 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

Wow...guess I was wrong about this place. It's not just THP that has assholes running it. 

Please refrain from insulting. Posters disagree with you. That is all. This subject seems to get people to be very passionate. You are passionate and they are passionate. No need to name call. If they name call, they will be warned.

But we all love golf or we wouldn't be here. There are lots of other threads that are not as polarizing. I would suggest checking them out.

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24 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Please refrain from insulting. Posters disagree with you. That is all. This subject seems to get people to be very passionate. You are passionate and they are passionate. No need to name call. If they name call, they will be warned.

But we all love golf or we wouldn't be here. There are lots of other threads that are not as polarizing. I would suggest checking them out.

I love Golf, and I'm not going to be here. 1st impressions are all I need. And my 1st Impression of this site isn't favorable. The feeling's probably mutual. THP also has an owner that can't manage to refrain from being a dickhead. No thanks. There, nor here. 

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31 minutes ago, JerseyBoy said:

I love Golf, and I'm not going to be here. 1st impressions are all I need. And my 1st Impression of this site isn't favorable. The feeling's probably mutual. THP also has an owner that can't manage to refrain from being a dickhead. No thanks. There, nor here. 

To all, let's not get into this further in the Tiger Catch-All thread. Moving on, and back on track, please.

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1 hour ago, JerseyBoy said:

Wow...guess I was wrong about this place. It's not just THP that has assholes running it. 

I imagine you run into this problem everywhere you go.

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2 hours ago, Zeph said:

If Tiger is playing somewhat well and happens to be just outside of top 60 by the time of qualification, and is healthy and wants to play, I see no reason why they wouldn't give him an excemption. Hell, they could do it just to pump up the ratings.

This +1

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So when is Tiger playing again?

Officially, he has stated to be playing the National and the U.S. Open.  But there has to be other tournaments before the National that he will play.  Almost certain he will play the Player's Championship.

I hope he plays another tournament within the next couple of weeks.  I would like to see how his comeback is progressing.

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32 minutes ago, Yukari said:

So when is Tiger playing again?

Officially, he has stated to be playing the National and the U.S. Open.  But there has to be other tournaments before the National that he will play.  Almost certain he will play the Player's Championship.

I hope he plays another tournament within the next couple of weeks.  I would like to see how his comeback is progressing.

We don't know. He said after The Masters:

Quote

“Generally after this tournament, I put away the clubs away for a while,” said Woods. “I usually take three to four weeks off. I put the clubs in the closet and just kind of get away.”

We might see him at Quail Hollow on May 3-6, and probably at The Players May 10-13.

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20 hours ago, ScouseJohnny said:

This may have been touched on among all the other variables considered in the Jack v Tiger thread, but something I've always pondered is extent to which the cream of the crop up their game for majors. What is the effect of the extra incentive, viz a viz a major v a regular tour event, irrespective of purse or other benefit?

It might be possible to measure (I haven't the time to do it myself), but, simply put, do the world's best golfers try harder and play better in majors? Whether consciously or subconsciously?

What I was trying to get at re: the bookies/gambling comments was this.

Imagine a data visualization instrument in which all the names of golfers likely to win majors this year are expressed, with the most likely winners clustered in the very center of the chart, and names appearing closer to the edge of the paper based upon how unlikely it is that they will win.

Draw a circle around the very center of the chart. There's your pool of most likely winners. Dustin, Rory, Jordan, etc.

A little further out, the Rickies of this world (competitive, but yet to win a major, which presents a question mark). Tiger is outside the very central cluster, too. He hasn't won a major in a decade.

On the fringes, the likes of Poulter - if he was going to win a major, I think he'd have done it by now. He has a realistic chance of winning, but he's not a likely winner. Which is why I never thought about him going into last week.

I know it sounds vaguely nebulous, but, in the case of Poulter, I don't see a very recent tour win as representing form for a major.

That circle around the central cluster represents the cream of the crop, in my mind - the pool of the most likely winners. The untested hypothesis is that some of them could play like total dogshit in a PGA Tour event  a week before a major, and then show up and turn on their greater (contemporary) talent for the major.

I'm no expert, But I think courses are set up to play harder for Majors then regular Tour events. I think this might make it easier for the better player to win. Over the course of 4 days, the separation between really good and good should become more apparent. But then again, who knows? As a lot of people here like to joke, even Danny Willet has a Green Jacket...

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4 hours ago, b101 said:

However you look at it, it's so much more exciting than his previous 'comebacks'. Remember this?

 

 

Oh, why. Whhhyyyy? My eyes are bleeding. :-P

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8 hours ago, klineka said:

What do you mean "his kind of game"?

So far this year:

  • He's averaging over 300 yards off the tee.
  • He's 15th in strokes gained approaching the green (with not his best iron play)
  • He's 11th in strokes gained putting
  • He's 6th in strokes gained around the green

Just reread that second one again. With mediocre iron play so far this year Tiger is still gaining .727 shots per round from his mediocre iron play.

Stats like those show he can compete on any course on this planet.

I think most people who've seen Tiger's entire career have a very hard time imagining him never having a shot at winning a major. Then when I look at the stats posted above, I have an even harder time thinking that. The only problem with us feeling that way is we are remembering a younger Tiger. This one is over 40. Who knows if the "mediocre" iron play you mentioned isn't very close to the best we'll see from him? Like most everyone, I tend to think his iron game will get better, but we don't know. I also think it will be harder to have every part of his game needed to win, (irons, driving, short and putting) come together for that one major week at his age. I'm starting to think after watching him so far this year that even though he's better now then we had a right to expect, he isn't going to ever be close to what he was. It just might be that age, and the physical and mental wear over the last twenty years might end up limiting what hopefully will at least be a healthy comeback.

Edited by GrandStranded

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