Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

[dchoye]

On February 10, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Groucho Valentine said:

Not the way i want to see the GOAT go out. But my instincts are telling me Tiger is done with competitive golf. 

Cosign

[Pendragon]

On 2/10/2017 at 1:46 PM, rehmwa said:

 

But, I'm doubting he can even go to the Champion's Tour and relive what a win feels like - I think that's even worse

 

 

Tiger doesn't strike me as someone who'd have any desire at all to play on the Champions Tour once he turns 50 and beyond. I hope I'm wrong, because his being out there would surely generate lots of interest, especially if he's winning or at least contending. That's still a long off, though. 

[Zeph]

I've always hoped he would return, but after the first 2-3 setbacks I realized it was no good getting worked up over it. He's been down the injury-surgery-recovery-return lane so many times now, I expect him to be hurt again shortly after returning to the tour every time.

[Braivo]

Honest question here: Is it possible for Tiger to learn a less stressful swing that will sacrifice some distance and power while lengthening his career? You see something similar in baseball when pitchers go from flame throwing to "finesse" styles successfully as they age. Could Tiger dial back the rotation and become a shorter hitter that relies and play the way Spieth does, for example? Perhaps the damage is already done and there really is no way to swing pain free now, who knows. 

[Piz]

Tiger has had every incentive, and ample time, to fashion a less violent move through the ball.  Perhaps he has no interest in becoming a senior version of his former self.  That is unfortunate.  Father Time, as we all know, never takes a day off.

[iacas]

41 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Honest question here: Is it possible for Tiger to learn a less stressful swing that will sacrifice some distance and power while lengthening his career?

That's basically what he's doing.

[tristanhilton85]

I think this time he may really be done. I had been hopeful that this last return he'd see better results as he took a lot of time off to rehab and get things right and not rush things. 

[chspeed]

On 2/11/2017 at 0:13 AM, 1badbadger said:

Talk about spot-on predictions, check out this article from 1995, a little over a year before Tiger turned pro.  The whole thing is good, but look at paragraphs 13 and 14 especially:

"Exercise and stretching ordinarily are the only way for golfers to prevent major back problems. But, just as there are no sureties in the game of golf, there are no absolutes where back injuries are concerned. Why does Greg Norman's back flare up when Nick Price's does not? Why Couples and not John Daly? Will Tiger Woods, the amateur sensation, have to endure back problems for his entire career? 

There are respected physical therapists who privately contend that Woods's enormous wide shoulder turn and tremendously fast rotation will result in back problems down the road. He already had a flareup this year at the Masters, one that, some believe, will be one of many."

 

 

Interesting.  I wonder if some of the younger long hitters like Koepka, DJ, etc. will have back problems. Day, not one of the longest hitters, but someone who "looks" like he swings really hard, has had some back issues. Is it genetics? conditioning? swing technique? number of swings? My guess is that it's combination of these and other factors, and very difficult to predict, even by doctors or physical therapists.

[1badbadger]

2 hours ago, chspeed said:

Interesting.  I wonder if some of the younger long hitters like Koepka, DJ, etc. will have back problems. Day, not one of the longest hitters, but someone who "looks" like he swings really hard, has had some back issues. Is it genetics? conditioning? swing technique? number of swings? My guess is that it's combination of these and other factors, and very difficult to predict, even by doctors or physical therapists.

According to the article:

Every professional sport holds the risk of back injury. But when it comes to aching backs, for sheer numbers and variety, no sport compares to golf and no professional athletes injure their backs with the frequency and severity of the touring golf professionals.

It's just a fact of life out there," says Dr. Scott Burke, a Denver orthopedic surgeon who treats nine PGA Tour players, including Fred Couples, and several L.P.G.A. players, for a variety of back injuries. "Sooner or later, almost everybody who plays golf for a living has some kind of back injury."

Rob Mottrum, who has spent the last nine years working as a physical therapist in the Centinela Fitness Center, the PGA Tour's mobile van that travels to each tour stop, has seen hundreds of bad backs. The reason for the large number is simple physics: Just as the knee joint was not designed to withstand pro football, so the back was not made to hold up to the repeated rigors of the golf swing.

[Buckeyebowman]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

That's basically what he's doing.

This^ I didn't think the tourney organizers at Torrey Pines did him any favors by pairing him with DJ and JD the first two days. They were shelling it past him 50 yards on every Driver! This is an "in your face" depiction of the current reality. Of course, none of them made the cut! Still, hitting from that far back takes it's toll.

[dakatkinson]

Sounds like his back is so bad that he can't do a press conference. Not good

[Abu3baid]

13 minutes ago, dakatkinson said:

Sounds like his back is so bad that he can't do a press conference. Not good

I looked up backspasams for the heck of it and this caught my eye.

There is a probability there is something they aren't telling us.  

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

There is a probability there is something they aren't telling us.  

Like what?

It's a back spasm. That's not good. It's his body saying "no no, not gonna happen. I'm going to protect myself."

It's pretty bad. Especially if it's STILL happening. He didn't JUST get off a long flight or something.

9 hours ago, chspeed said:

Interesting.  I wonder if some of the younger long hitters like Koepka, DJ, etc. will have back problems. Day, not one of the longest hitters, but someone who "looks" like he swings really hard, has had some back issues.

Jason Day ranked 15th last year in Driving Distance: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2016.html .

[boogielicious]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Like what?

It's a back spasm. That's not good. It's his body saying "no no, not gonna happen. I'm going to protect myself."

It's pretty bad. Especially if it's STILL happening. He didn't JUST get off a long flight or something.

Jason Day ranked 15th last year in Driving Distance: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2016.html .

The other body response is muscle weakness. The body will protect itself by not firing the muscle around the injured area. So doing activity, even with painkillers, can further injury because the support structure is weakened. This is why numbing a shoulder for a QB with a separation, or shots in the back for Tiger don't work. Their own bodies will weaken itself to protect the injured area. Performance with suffer.

I saw this first hand with my knees in a test called the Pie Test. I would hold a weight on a leg extension machine as I bent the knee through the range of motion. When my knee was bent to the point where the knee cap went over the injured cartilage, the force I could generate decreased. The test pointed to the exact location of the injury. It was bizarre to see first hand.

[chspeed]

Looks like bookies are offering 100/1 odds on Woods' winning the masters. That's a serious sucker bet. Considering the latest news, the odds of him even playing in the Masters are slim. Winning? Probability has to be lower than 1%.

[Braivo]

9 hours ago, dakatkinson said:

Sounds like his back is so bad that he can't do a press conference. Not good

This is real bad news. I just heard someone state on a podcast that he hit the weights really hard after Bahamas and that his inner circle was trying to convince him to lay off. He looked far better in Bahamas than he did in January, even though he was more "jacked" in January.

This supports my theory that his ego still poses a problem, he simply cannot accept reality and that golf, and life, will look a little different for him now. It is well documented that nearly all of his major back troubles have occurred since taking an interest in putting on significant amounts of muscle and training his body to the max. 

Before Bahamas he was still recovering from surgery and hadn't been lifting, after he felt good so he started lifting again, then the wheels come off. He doesn't need muscle mass to be a competitive golfer, he needs to be able to turn. 

[Yukari]

1 hour ago, Braivo said:

This is real bad news. I just heard someone state on a podcast that he hit the weights really hard after Bahamas and that his inner circle was trying to convince him to lay off. He looked far better in Bahamas than he did in January, even though he was more "jacked" in January.

This supports my theory that his ego still poses a problem, he simply cannot accept reality and that golf, and life, will look a little different for him now. It is well documented that nearly all of his major back troubles have occurred since taking an interest in putting on significant amounts of muscle and training his body to the max. 

Before Bahamas he was still recovering from surgery and hadn't been lifting, after he felt good so he started lifting again, then the wheels come off. He doesn't need muscle mass to be a competitive golfer, he needs to be able to turn. 

Seems like it's gotta be more than a simple back spasm if he can't even sit for a press conference.

[skydog]

6 minutes ago, Yukari said:

Seems like it's gotta be more than a simple back spasm if he can't even sit for a press conference.

A couple people close to me have suffered back spasms in recent years and it's debilitating to the point that you couldn't sit through a press conference. More so than actually sitting through the PC, I'm guessing that it's the flight from FL to CA that is the most problematic for Tiger now. If he is able to make it there this weekend I'm guessing he would give the media some time, but at this point it's sounding like he might not be able to be there at all.