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The Definitive Pace of Play Thread


iacas
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83 members have voted

  1. 1. How long does it typically take you to play 18 holes as a foursome?

    • Under 3:00
      0
    • 3:00 to 3:30
      20
    • 3:30 to 4:00
      73
    • 4:00 to 4:30
      72
    • 4:30 to 5:00
      11
    • Over 5:00
      4


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I used to play fairly regularly in a foursome that finished between 3:00-3:30 and we walked. Haven't played with those guys in a long time though. Now when I get out on a course and they put me with three other people, I don't expect to finish faster than 4:00-4:30, so that's what I voted.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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I voted 4:30-5:00 just because I think no one else will. I see a lot of 5 hour rounds where I play as it is.

Pace of play is what it is for that player playing that day. Some are going to be slower than others, and some will be faster. It's the nature of the game. You speed up a slow player, and he will play worse than normal. You slow down a fast player, and it will probably effect their game negatively. Nothing will ever change it. Sure, there can be changes made in the current game to speed up play to appease the track star in all of us, but it won't be the game we now play.

What too many current players don't seem to get is that "the game we now play" is lethargic.  There is no redeeming value in playing golf in more than 4:15 as an upper limit.  There is nothing track star about it.  It is simply acknowledging that you are there to play golf, and while the social aspect is important to the game, it is secondary to actually playing the game.  There is simply no excuse for taking as long as we take these days.  It's easy to just pass it off on the excuse that we have to wait on the group in front, so lets call that 4½ hours the norm.  All this does is create a generation of players who actually believe that nonsense.

The answer is to speed up that group in front, and the group in front of them, and so on until the course is playing at 4 hours for a maximum, and 4½ is no longer even seen.  This might cause some ruffled feathers, but if all of the courses in a community joined up in such a program, the real golfers would applaud it, and most of the slow players would have to learn how to play at a reasonable pace.  The few who quit because of such a policy we can live without, especially if the faster pace helps to encourage new players to take up the game.

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Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Typically - 4 to 4:30.

With an open course - between 3 and 4 hours, depending on the course and how much time we spend looking for lost balls.

I think the problem is that people think they're okay when they play a 4:30 round. I'd say that most of the courses around here post the maximum time for a round at 4:30, so people think that 4:30 is okay. But 4:30 is the maximum, not the desired pace. I played twice this weekend - one round was a 4:20, the other was 4:50. Ugh. And neither were on courses where you would be looking for balls for very long. All it takes is one golfer to screw it up for everybody.

-- Daniel

In my bag: :callaway: Paradym :callaway: Epic Flash 3.5W (16 degrees)

:callaway: Rogue Pro 3-PW :edel: SMS Wedges - V-Grind (48, 54, 58):edel: Putter

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In a foursome on an open course? 3:30 to 4:00. If there are no lost balls or no series of stinker holes, 3:30. All it takes is someone or a couple of people, myself included here, to have one or two really bad holes to throw off the pace.

Recently I played a 5 hour round and thought I was going to die of old age.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

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FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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I didn't vote in the poll because an unencumbered round of golf would probably take between 3:45-4:15 depending on the difficulty of the course. I tend to hit my share of wayward shots, which adds 5-10 minutes of search time to my rounds compared to all you straight ball hitters. As such 3:30 would feel a bit rushed on anything but a flat, open parkland course. But there is no reason that a foursome with no waiting should take 4:30 or more to complete a round.
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Sure, there can be changes made in the current game to speed up play to appease the track star in all of us, but it won't be the game we now play.

The game doesn't need to change at all. What needs to change are the attitudes about what an acceptable pace is, and a willingness on the part of golf courses to enforce it, even if it ruffles some feathers.

  • Upvote 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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I chose 3:30 to 4:00, that's what I expect if I'm not waiting on other people, and that's what I generally see at my home club.  I play on a new-ish course (22 years old) that runs through a housing development, and we have some long walks between green and the next tee, but its still reasonable to play at a 4 hour pace or a little better, even while walking.   Its interesting to me that where I've played in Scotland, where virtually nobody rides, that 4 hours is considered incredibly slow, and four-balls are generally expected to play in about 3:30.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
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:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

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It's a bit like trying to define how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Too many variables. If I play at a course that has 2 tee times for every 15 minutes I expect a longer round than if the course has 10,11 or 12 minutes between tee times. It can also depend on if it is a weekend round or weekday round. Is the group I am playing with going to take around 320 strokes or over 360? Does the course have a lot of trouble areas where it may be hard to find a ball that is not in a hazard or out of bounds. Yada, Yada, Yada. I would have to pick 3:00 to 4:30 depending on conditions.

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Most of my rounds over the past few years are 3:30 to 4hrs, but I'd say there are 20% that make the 4-4:30. Once in a while (maybe 10%?) we can get a group a tad under 3:30 (usually less than a foursome and nobody to slow us down in front).

If it goes beyond 4:30 in this area, that's somewhat unusual, and my foursome (typically random strangers) gets annoyed, and we will call the clubhouse to find the bottleneck.

FYI: this is public muni's in northern VA area, and I typically play mornings.  That's key: mornings. There may be people playing the very same courses as I do (but later in the day), and think my answers are absurdly low.

For those who have seen past posts of mine on pace of play, I've got a spreadsheet model that is fairly comprehensive, and the time of day is important.  By the end of the day, all of the random slowness that occurs throughout the day can accumulate if things are packed tightly with tee times. Also, the later in the day, the more chance that a slow group has been on the course, punishing everyone behind it.

It takes just one slow group, or one slow event to occur to create a delay, but it takes several successive groups playing steadily to erase that delay. Like bad traffic, a slow event lingers on the course, but all things must go right to get rid of that delay. In that time, another slow "event" (lost ball search, whatever) can occur, which just compounds the problem.

My biggest lesson learned from analyzing the issue and studying the dynamics of the propagation of course delays: PLAY EARLY.

My Swing


Driver: :ping: G30, Irons: :tmade: Burner 2.0, Putter: :cleveland:, Balls: :snell:

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I responded with 4:30 - 5:00hr rounds, but that comes from my course.  We are a little bit of a tougher course with tight fairways and people can lose a lot of balls so the rounds usually take a little longer for 4-somes on a full day.  If I play with my regular group of guys on an open course, we could definitely finish in 3:30hrs or less.  But, this is recreational golf.  Competitive golf is a different story when there is money on the line, because you take more time on the greens to make sure you have all the angles down and so on.  So rounds will jump to 4:30 - 5hrs depending on the course.  But I don't mind those times because we are not waiting much, it's more of taking your time with each shot.

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

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For me less about the actual time involved than how much waiting there is. I enjoy being out there and I am known as a speed demon but for me a good pace is simply not waiting and watching the groups ahead. I see so much senseless stuff on golf courses you'd swear people think they are get more value for their dollar the longer they are there.

I only play out of the way courses these days. If I have to stand around on a busy metro course I'd rather do something else. What I see making people slow is completely avoidable. A lot of it because people are overly courteous. They put so much space between themselves and the groups around it creates gaps but not so much you can sail through. Too much waiting to play shots when there is plenty of space to. And there is always an imbalance of people being unprepared in the fairway and overly attentive on the greens. If I have to watch some wanker hit a barrage of ugly shots getting to the green and then walk around their putt to "save" double like it's necessary to hole it to win the Open I get antsy.

Dave :-)

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I can't remember the last time I played 18 holes in under 5 hours. It's just the standard around here at public courses. Yesterday, we were at 3.5 hours at the turn. The other two people in my 3-some left to go home and watch the PGA. I caught up with the threesome ahead at the 10th tee and we finished the round in about 5 and a half hours. On the front nine, there would be 3 groups on every tee box. Just brutal. The best part was that a marshal came up to us on 14 (don't know where he'd been the past 4 hours) and told us to pick up the pace. Dude, we're a foursome waiting on a twosome ahead of us on every tee box. Believe me, we aren't the problem.

After the round, I went out and played the front 9 by myself and finished in a hair over an hour, walking a really hilly course with my push cart (and, it turns out, bordering on heat stroke; I weighed myself when I got home and I'd lost 11 pounds since the morning. Felt awful all night. But that's neither here nor there). So I know I can play fast, I just never really get a chance to.

Also, considering how these pace-of-play threads tend to spiral, I think @iacas is angling to get the coveted "Kickstarter of the Millennium" badge for his signature line, haha.

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

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I just based it on my last 18 as it seemed like an average pace on a full course around these parts.  It was at Torrey Pines with a 7:15 AM start and we played at 4 hours and 20 minutes.  We kept up with the group ahead of us so it wasn't necessarily 'our' pace of play that determined things.

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If it was a foursome with 3 copies of me it would be 3:30. lol I played a round solo Saturday walking and was done in 3 hours, and I hit 2-3 drives on at least half of the holes. The poll is really kind of silly since it depends on the level of skill in the group and if you're walking or riding.
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The poll is really kind of silly since it depends on the level of skill in the group and if you're walking or riding.

Except for the extreme end of the fast play spectrum....call it sub-3 hours, those may be the two of the least important factors in determining pace of play.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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I can't remember the last time I played 18 holes in under 5 hours. It's just the standard around here at public courses. Yesterday, we were at 3.5 hours at the turn. The other two people in my 3-some left to go home and watch the PGA. I caught up with the threesome ahead at the 10th tee and we finished the round in about 5 and a half hours. On the front nine, there would be 3 groups on every tee box. Just brutal. The best part was that a marshal came up to us on 14 (don't know where he'd been the past 4 hours) and told us to pick up the pace. Dude, we're a foursome waiting on a twosome ahead of us on every tee box. Believe me, we aren't the problem.

After the round, I went out and played the front 9 by myself and finished in a hair over an hour, walking a really hilly course with my push cart (and, it turns out, bordering on heat stroke; I weighed myself when I got home and I'd lost 11 pounds since the morning. Felt awful all night. But that's neither here nor there). So I know I can play fast, I just never really get a chance to.

Also, considering how these pace-of-play threads tend to spiral, I think @iacas is angling to get the coveted "Kickstarter of the Millennium" badge for his signature line, haha.

What courses are you playing at because I've been playing some local courses and haven't finished a round in over 4 hours.

Joe Paradiso

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What courses are you playing at because I've been playing some local courses and haven't finished a round in over 4 hours.

Sunken Meadow twice last week and Crab Meadow twice this week.

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

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Note: This thread is 2588 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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