Giving Helpful Tips, a Problem

[paininthenuts]

I haven't being playing very long, however my progress has been quite reasonable, and I have had a fair few lessons. As well as listening to experienced golfers. I openly listen to advice, because I know I won't get better if I don't. Of course, ultimately it's up to me what advice I take, based on how good the advice is, and if it works for me. Unfortunately when playing with other less proficient players, I find myself having to button my lips, albeit I have slipped up a few times. So often I see people really struggling because they are making glaring mistakes, such as opening their legs twice as far as necessary, trying to hit the ball to hard, not relaxing, taking their eye off of the ball to early, and  adopting very strange grips. Of course, if these things work for them, GREAT, but they rarely do. 

I play with a chap twice a week who has been playing for years, and to be honest he is a terrible golfer. I have asked him if he has ever taken lessons, but he believes they won't make much difference. Of course, it's up to him if he doesn't want to improve, but it is so hard to watch a man struggling so much and not saying anything. I consider I am a nice person, and prefer to see people playing well, even if it means they beat me, so does anyone have any tips on how I can advise without causing offense, or being told to shut up ?

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, paininthenuts said:

I haven't being playing very long, however my progress has been quite reasonable, and I have had a fair few lessons. As well as listening to experienced golfers. I openly listen to advice, because I know I won't get better if I don't. Of course, ultimately it's up to me what advice I take, based on how good the advice is, and if it works for me. Unfortunately when playing with other less proficient players, I find myself having to button my lips, albeit I have slipped up a few times. So often I see people really struggling because they are making glaring mistakes, such as opening their legs twice as far as necessary, trying to hit the ball to hard, not relaxing, taking their eye off of the ball to early, and  adopting very strange grips. Of course, if these things work for them, GREAT, but they rarely do. 

I play with a chap twice a week who has been playing for years, and to be honest he is a terrible golfer. I have asked him if he has ever taken lessons, but he believes they won't make much difference. Of course, it's up to him if he doesn't want to improve, but it is so hard to watch a man struggling so much and not saying anything. I consider I am a nice person, and prefer to see people playing well, even if it means they beat me, so does anyone have any tips on how I can advise without causing offense, or being told to shut up ?

This is a tough one because I think it depends on the person. I have a good friend that was struggling a couple years ago with chipping and pitching. I gave him a quick tip and it helped during the round. He was appreciative.

But the same guy with full swing advice doesn't seem to want help even though he struggles at times. 

I would test the waters a bit and maybe point him to The Five Simple Keys or other quality instruction information.

[mcanadiens]

Deciding what to listen to and what to ignore is a tough deal. I made some real big mistakes in my first couple of years listening to one fellow in particular. As a beginner, this guy was clearly a much better golfer than I was, so listened to him. He told me to do things that had worked for him and I spent time really trying to apply them. Now I realize that it really retarded my growth as a golfer and possibly hard-wired some of the swing flaws I may still have.

If you are a beginner, don't take to heart advice unless this person is professional or good enough that he could be. Some dude that shoots in the 80s might be better than you are, but that doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

[Patch]

When out playing, I never share golf swing information unless I am asked, especially when playing with strangers. I just never know how the other golfer will take constructive criticism they have not asked for. 

[ZappyAd]

29 minutes ago, Patch said:

When out playing, I never share golf swing information unless I am asked , especially when playing with strangers. I just never know how the other golfer will take constructive criticism they have not asked for. 

+1 on this.  I don't count myself as qualified even if anyone asks - I roughly know what works for me or what I'm working on but it probably isn't relevant for someone else.  I always suggest finding a pro that the person gets on with and then listening to what they say.

[xcott]

If he's a friend, give him something like the hogan book as a gift for his birthday.

[paininthenuts]

9 minutes ago, xcott said:

If he's a friend, give him something like the hogan book as a gift for his birthday.

Wasn't he a wrestler though ?

12 minutes ago, ZappyAd said:

+1 on this.  I don't count myself as qualified even if anyone asks - I roughly know what works for me or what I'm working on but it probably isn't relevant for someone else.  I always suggest finding a pro that the person gets on with and then listening to what they say.

Yes, but I am not talking finer points, I am referring to basic fundamentals, like not trying to whack the life out of a ball, and keeping your eye on it. 

[jkelley9]

I have a company tournament coming up this weekend and pretty much everyone here knows I play a good bit of golf, and I will probably be in the top 1% "of the field" (lol) come Saturday. 

In this situation the only things I'll say are things I can say in 5 seconds, and are very easy to understand - they don't require much thought. So basically the only things I'll say are:

1. "Keep your head still."

2. "Don't hit up at the ball, try to smack it into the ground. The loft will lift the ball up naturally."

Nothing with rotation, axis, pressure points, etc. These two things above have pretty much been able to make some of those players hit a few decent shots in their round with a different "feel." So they're usually pretty satisfied with it.

 

For day-to-day bad golfers, I don't say anything unless asked (never). I'm also not the best golfer in the world, myself :)

[MrFlipper]

3 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

I haven't being playing very long, however my progress has been quite reasonable, and I have had a fair few lessons. As well as listening to experienced golfers. I openly listen to advice, because I know I won't get better if I don't. Of course, ultimately it's up to me what advice I take, based on how good the advice is, and if it works for me. Unfortunately when playing with other less proficient players, I find myself having to button my lips, albeit I have slipped up a few times. So often I see people really struggling because they are making glaring mistakes, such as opening their legs twice as far as necessary, trying to hit the ball to hard, not relaxing, taking their eye off of the ball to early, and  adopting very strange grips. Of course, if these things work for them, GREAT, but they rarely do. 

I play with a chap twice a week who has been playing for years, and to be honest he is a terrible golfer. I have asked him if he has ever taken lessons, but he believes they won't make much difference. Of course, it's up to him if he doesn't want to improve, but it is so hard to watch a man struggling so much and not saying anything. I consider I am a nice person, and prefer to see people playing well, even if it means they beat me, so does anyone have any tips on how I can advise without causing offense, or being told to shut up ?

Don't do it. At all. Ever.

I'm sure you mean well but other than teaching pros and few really skillful amateurs, we're not qualified to help anyone. Folks don't want to hear advice unsolicited. And even if asked, odds are we will be wrong in our diagnosis or it won't be what they want to hear.  Is it really fair to send unskilled golfers down the wrong path, which is probably going to happen if we don't offer the correct help in the correct way? For instance you mention "not relaxing", "taking their eye off the ball", etc., do you really know why they are doing that and how to fix it? I sure don't, maybe you do. I'm not even sure what that is or means.

You can suggest lessons but in my experience most folks don't do that either, like your buddy. So I suggest just let it go, never offer unsolicited advice, and if solicited, pass. Suggest lessons again if you feel compelled to say something. 

And if you do offer advice, and don't get a poor response, please don't think it's a green light to do it again. There's few things worse than being offered swing help without asking. Just say no!

Sorry, not what you wanted to hear I bet, nothing personal :)

[David in FL]

6 minutes ago, MrFlipper said:

Don't do it. At all. Ever.

I'm sure you mean well but other than teaching pros and few really skillful amateurs, we're not qualified to help anyone. Folks don't want to hear advice unsolicited. And even if asked, odds are we will be wrong in our diagnosis or it won't be what they want to hear.  Is it really fair to send unskilled golfers down the wrong path, which is probably going to happen if we don't offer the correct help in the correct way? For instance you mention "not relaxing", "taking their eye off the ball", etc., do you really know why they are doing that and how to fix it? I sure don't, maybe you do. I'm not even sure what that is or means.

You can suggest lessons but in my experience most folks don't do that either, like your buddy. So I suggest just let it go, never offer unsolicited advice, and if solicited, pass. Suggest lessons again if you feel compelled to say something. 

And if you do offer advice, and don't get a poor response, please don't think it's a green light to do it again. There's few things worse than being offered swing help without asking. Just say no!

Sorry, not what you wanted to hear I bet, nothing personal :)

^^^ This ^^^

[newtogolf]

33 minutes ago, MrFlipper said:

Don't do it. At all. Ever.

I'm sure you mean well but other than teaching pros and few really skillful amateurs, we're not qualified to help anyone. Folks don't want to hear advice unsolicited. And even if asked, odds are we will be wrong in our diagnosis or it won't be what they want to hear.  Is it really fair to send unskilled golfers down the wrong path, which is probably going to happen if we don't offer the correct help in the correct way? For instance you mention "not relaxing", "taking their eye off the ball", etc., do you really know why they are doing that and how to fix it? I sure don't, maybe you do. I'm not even sure what that is or means.

You can suggest lessons but in my experience most folks don't do that either, like your buddy. So I suggest just let it go, never offer unsolicited advice, and if solicited, pass. Suggest lessons again if you feel compelled to say something. 

And if you do offer advice, and don't get a poor response, please don't think it's a green light to do it again. There's few things worse than being offered swing help without asking. Just say no!

Sorry, not what you wanted to hear I bet, nothing personal :)

Well said and dead on.  I never feel compelled to provide advice but do sometimes get asked for it because they know I take lessons.  I feel bad but I'll always respond that they really don't want advice from me as I'm still learning myself.  

[billchao]

4 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

I consider I am a nice person, and prefer to see people playing well, even if it means they beat me, so does anyone have any tips on how I can advise without causing offense, or being told to shut up ?

Don't. Respect his right to golf his own way. If he wants to improve, there are avenues he can pursue on his own.

2 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

Yes, but I am not talking finer points, I am referring to basic fundamentals, like not trying to whack the life out of a ball, and keeping your eye on it.

Those aren't even really fundamentals per se. They're just old cliches that don't really have any effect on improving a golf swing.

[Fourputt]

If someone asks, and if I feel that I can actually help him, then I will try to offer a suggestion.  I will not offer anything unsolicited, and I don't think that the OP should either.  I also ignore 99% of the "tips" that I'm offered.  Trying to learn the game through tips is the quickest path to a lousy and inconsistent swing, because there is no system or consistent theory behind a bunch of random tips.  

If you want my advice, go see a qualified instructor.

[MrDC]

i wouldn't worry about, just play your game, I understand people want to help others and also want their partners to be decent, a hacker brings everyone down, but there's just nothing that can be done, it's on them, I don't know why but many feel they can learn this game on their own.

What you can do is offer to range together, and then bring up the importance of instruction.

Edited June 20, 2016 by MrDC

[DrvFrShow]

It depends. I play with a woman who has been playing about as long as I have. She was having a hell of a time with her bunker shots. I'd landed in 7 bunkers that day and had gotten out of every one of them with one shot to within reasonable distance of the flag including a sand save. There was no one behind us - two open holes. She was dreading the next bunker shot, and made a comment about it.

I'd been watching her hit them and her technique with them was terrible. She had taken lessons but her instructor moved. I asked her if anyone had ever shown her how to play a bunker shot. She said, "no." I asked her if she wouldn't mind if I showed her how to hit a bunker shot. Now I know women are different than men. She was all ears. I grabbed my 64* and showed her a basic no-frills way to get herself out of bunkers. She only had a 54* wedge so I let her use my 64 for the shot. I drew a line in the sand,  and told her to take swings and thump the sand on the line to get the feel, and told her to aggressively drive through and follow through for her shot. Accelerate through the ball. She nearly holed it. Beginner's luck. I sold her my extra 60* Cleveland wedge for $35 the next time we played. 

Then I wasn't changing anything on her swing technique. Or her stance. Or any of her fundamentals. Just showing her how to hit a bunker shot.

Then I told her it will take her about 4 hours of practice in a bunker to become proficient at it. If you find yourself in greenside bunkers a lot it pays to spend some time practicing. I land in them a lot. 

Then she asked me about chipping which I've gotten pretty decent at. I use Phil's method. I showed her, and referred her to Phil's videos.

[Grinde6]

It all depends on who the person is and how well I know them.  If a buddy is struggling and says "what the hell am I doing wrong" I will usually offer up what I see, I don't tell them how to fix it as I would like them to do that on their own.  If you have golfed long enough, chances are you have some knowledge on how to fix different things.  If they truly don't or come back to me later in the round or after and ask how, I will offer a couple things for them to do. 

If they are struggling on something and just cant figure it out, I will tell them I have had the same problem, but the local PGA Professional was able to help me correct it with my swing.  This way they hear you tell them to go see a professional without actually telling them, and then I tell them with my swing since everyone is different and some swing fixes wont work with everyone.

[mchepp]

A few years ago I was playing with this guy who was a beginner. Massive slice. Basically an unplayable one. I recommended strengthening his grip. Which in reality probably would have done nothing, but he says to me "I am not all that impressed with your game". At that time I was around a 1-2 handicap who played 2x a day. 

Immediately I shut up and it is the last time I have ever offered unsolicited advice. Now I'll help if someone asks, but sans someone asking, slice away my friend.

[Missouri Swede]

I don't say a thing.  

Even when I heard a father instruct his kid, "Flip the club at the ball and try to scoop it up."

If asked, I point people to this website and to evolvr.