Am I being an A**Hole

[kpaulhus]

Some background information before you vote...

I run a weekly game on Saturdays and Sundays with anywhere from 8-12 guys. Handicaps in my group range anywhere from 1 to 16. Expected pace of play at my course is right at 4 hours. Anything more and its frowned upon. We do not get the earliest tee times of 8am, because the course does me a favor by allowing me to have standing tee times without having to call every week. We have 9:00-9:10-9:20 every weekend. 

This morning we had 7 guys, so I sent off a 3some (me included) and the last 4 guys to follow. On the 3rd hole I noticed that there was a 2some in front of us on 4 tee, and one of the guys took 5 practice swings just to top his driver maybe 4 feet. It was still on the tee box. He reteed and pulled one about 60 yards left. No biggie, golf is hard no matter how good or bad you are. 

The 2some was not very good, so they were having a hard time keeping  up with the 4some in front of them. I texted the assistant pro (close buddy) in the pro shop and he came out and asked the 2some to try and keep pace or let our 3some through. We waited on every shot on 4-5-6 and finally on 7 green we hurried to the 8th tee only for them to look back at us then drive off. The issue was they were waiting for the 4some to get on the green before they would tee off, and then come nowhere close to hitting it 200 yards. On the 9th tee I finally said, "hey guys, do you mind if we play through? We will get through that 4some no problem and you wont see us again" They said sorry, but the 4some is not allowing them to play faster and that they couldnt let us through. At that point I said, you're a 2some, and 2 hours for 9 holes is not on pace. You need to push the guys in front of you so they know to let people through. 

At the turn the assistant pro let us through, and we played through the 4some on 11 without them missing a beat. Ended up playing in 2 hours and 55 mins, even with the hold up (all three of us shot sub 80 rounds).

After the round I thank the assistant pro for allowing us to play through, and mentioned that 2 hours for a 2some was not on pace. He told me that they complained that I was pressuring them to push the group in front of them, and that he was a tennis member who they would like to join as a golf member. The assistant pro said he has been giving one of them lessons, and that 2 hours probably should be their pace. I replied with " I have no problem with anyone shooting 120 on a Sunday morning, golf is golf, but when there is a faster group behind its golf courtesy to let them through" 

I dont really care what they think, and honestly if they can get around in less than 4 hours Id be glad to have them play in my weekly game.

Was I wrong for pushing a group of not very good golfers?

 

[Gunther]

Sounds like this is a private club, at which I play none too often.  But, if I were at a muni, in the 2some, I wouldn't have let a 3some through while I was waiting on a 4some each hole.

I see your point too, however, so I'm neutral, hence, didn't vote. Only responded to provide you a little perspective on what the 2some may have been thinking.

[Brian W]

I would let a single, twosome or threesome play through if the group I was with wasn't keeping pace

That said, I do not allow people to take all those practice swings and admire their shots and act like there isn't anyone else on the course when they play with me.  I will say something for sure to keep my group moving.  I do not expect anyone to play speed golf (houseguest reference) but rate of play should be something to be mindful of at all time.  I do not think you did anything wrong

[kpaulhus]

16 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Sounds like this is a private club, at which I play none too often.  But, if I were at a muni, in the 2some, I wouldn't have let a 3some through while I was waiting on a 4some each hole.

I see your point too, however, so I'm neutral, hence, didn't vote. Only responded to provide you a little perspective on what the 2some may have been thinking.

The issue with this was the 2some was waiting until the 4some got on the green to tee off. They were never actually "waiting" as if they couldnt hit a shot. 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, kpaulhus said:

The issue with this was the 2some was waiting until the 4some got on the green to tee off. They were never actually "waiting" as if they couldnt hit a shot. 

On a 200 yard hole? They weren't 85 right?

[bkuehn1952]

If there was not at least one or more clear holes and the 2-some were essentially on pace with the 4-some, I would not have asked to play through.  On the other hand, I see nothing wrong to ask to play through if you clearly are playing very fast and your intention is to pass the 4-some, too.  Suggesting to the 2-some that they were supposed to "push" the 4-some is a bit too aggressive, in my opinion.

No vote from me as there is no clear right or wrong approach.

[Gunther]

10 minutes ago, kpaulhus said:

The issue with this was the 2some was waiting until the 4some got on the green to tee off. They were never actually "waiting" as if they couldnt hit a shot. 

Sure but the thought process of the 2some is that they can't get by the 4some so they're playing at pace with them.  By the time they tee off and get to their ball, the 4some is probably just walking off the green.  Now the 2some doesn't have to wait for their approach shot.  But, by the time they get to the next tee, the 4some probably hitting approach shots so they're waiting again.  I still think the 2some was fine in their etiquette, terrible golf ability notwithstanding.  2 hours to play 9 is not on target for a 2some but it is for a 4some and they were constrained by said 4some so they're good.

Rules perhaps a bit different at a private course because you may have known the 4some in front and were confident they'd let you through.  At a muni, we're I in that 2some, I wouldn't make that assumption.

[kpaulhus]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

On a 200 yard hole? They weren't 85 right?

Nope. Both men in their 40's. Couldnt hit a drive over 200 yards. They didnt wait on a par 3 because they took so long on the hole prior that the 4some had already finished and were on the next tee.

 

I guess I should rephrase my question, if a group is waiting on you on every hole, as in almost pulling up as your group is teeing off, should you let them through. Most guys know each other at our club, but I had never seen this twosome before, and one of them was a guest. The foursome waived us up on the next hole once we got through the twosome anyways. 

[billchao]

The way I read it, the 2some was at least a shot behind every hole if they were waiting for the group ahead of them to get on the green before teeing off.

I see no issue with what @kpaulhus did. If anything they should have let you through just so you weren't "pressuring" them to speed up every hole. Everyone would have had a much better time as a result.

[jamo]

If your groups were able to play through the foursome, but the twosome either couldn't or refused to ask (I've seen guys chicken out about asking), then they weren't sufficiently "pushing" the foursome. I don't see any issue with what you did. 

[No Mulligans]

If they were one shot (or less) behind the group ahead and keeping up with that pace... If I was in that twosome I'd be thinking I'm not holding you up as long as a close ranks on the 18th.  I'd also feel that I have no obligation to push the group ahead, that is not part of golf ettiquette nor is it my obligation.  That is what the Marshall is for.

 When you asked to play through I would have let you as I don't like to be pushed and would have been annoyed as I was keeping pace.  You shouldn't have called the Marshall on me you should have called the Marshall on the group ahead of me. 

(What I would have done as that twosome when you almost met us on the tee box at the 200 yard par three, I would have called the pro shop and said, "the foursome ahead is playing slow and we have two groups backed up on the tee box".)

[Golfingdad]

Yes.

P.S. I didn't read the op.

;)

---

Ok, now being serious after actually reading the op ... Yeah, I think you were a probably little over the top.  They were keeping pace with the group in front of them.  I know of two pace of play "rules."  Play at a certain pace (I.e. 4 hours for a foursome or whatever) or keep pace with the group in front of you.  I've never heard of a rule that said anybody was obligated to play FASTER than the group in front of them out of courtesy to groups behind them.

The one thing I think they did wrong, however, was say no to you when you first asked to play through.  If someone is pressuring me from behind then I'd definitely prefer if they could get past me so they stop bothering me.

[David L Yskes]

i dont think it's wrong at all to tell someone to keep up pace of play....   especially if it's a private course and you have people behind you backed up a hole or 2...  

 

[David in FL]

Absolutely not.  Sounds like you handled it just fine.

[newtogolf]

Reading what you did, I'd say no, if I were part of the twosome that was in front of you, maybe.  

I hate when people push when there's really no place to go.  Our starter doesn't send us out until the group in front of us hits the green, that is the pace we try to maintain but obviously it gets a little messed up on Par 3's when you have to wait for them to clear.  

[kpaulhus]

33 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Reading what you did, I'd say no, if I were part of the twosome that was in front of you, maybe.  

I hate when people push when there's really no place to go.  Our starter doesn't send us out until the group in front of us hits the green, that is the pace we try to maintain but obviously it gets a little messed up on Par 3's when you have to wait for them to clear.  

To your point, we have 10 min tee times. These guys teed off 20 mins before us and we caught them on 4.

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, kpaulhus said:

To your point, we have 10 min tee times. These guys teed off 20 mins before us and we caught them on 4.

The real question isn't where you caught them but how many holes ahead was the group in front of the twosome?  If there wasn't a hole between the twosome and foursome you can't blame it all on the twosome.  

[mchepp]

I think that using the pro shop was the correct method for solving the problem. So that part I think you were in the right.

I wonder though if you were standing in the fairway hands on hips (you know how you look if you're doing this) ready to hit the instant they got off the green and were not being a little pushy. If you were being pushy, in a non confrontational way, meaning not telling them but doing the little things that everyone knows is pushy. That is not right. 

So pending the second part of my answer I want a C option where I can say half right, half wrong.