TN94z

Listening to advice from a higher handicap

76 posts in this topic

As long as it is an observation only (eg, seems like your butt sticks out more than normal, etc.,) sure, I will read it. They may have higher HCPs but they are not blind.

But if it advise as in try this, try that, feel this, feel that, not a chance. Actually for that matter not even low HCPs. That's reserved for my coach only. Mainly because even if their advice is ok, it may not be priority and honestly I am not sure I can always tell. Best to not take it in interest of self-preservation.

Edited by GolfLug
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1 minute ago, nevets88 said:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Yep.

I don't listen to advice from anyone without putting it through my fairly extensive mental flow chart.

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2 hours ago, TN94z said:

So I have been reading a lot of my swing threads and other help topics on the forums and it led me to a question. When you post a question on swing issues and you are looking for advice on how to fix the issue, do you immediately look at the responding poster's handicap (if posted) to determine whether or not you take the advice into consideration?  For example, you are a 5 handicap and post up a question on an issue you are having and a 15 handicap responds, do you immediately think "They are a 15 and I am a 5, there is nothing they know or can see that I don't know or haven't seen."  If not 15, then a 20?  Is there a line that you have drawn on what number you tend to stop taking advice from??

I am just curious...

No issues at all.

There are some 18 handicaps that are also 70+ years old with a lot of knowledge. I wouldn't say no to any good information. A 5 should be able to disseminate good from bad anyway. . .

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Ha, great question. I am positive people are looking at handicaps when considering advice on internet forums, that's why the number is there for all to see, right under your avatar. 

 

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As mentioned in several responses above, a handicap index is not necessarily any indication of the value of advice given. There are many who have a good knowledge of the golf swing. Many of the well known instructors, coaches, guru's have come out with screwy ideas. There are those instructors who seem to be very well versed in the technical aspects, can "talk the talk", but at the same time, owing to something as simple as "vibes", or even personality, I would never even consider taking a lesson from.   Knowledge is great, but far more important is the ability to pass on that knowledge to a variety of people in a manner that is easily understood, appropriate to the readiness of the student to learn and incorporate e.t.c.  This is not so far removed from the posts regarding the relationships between caddies and players.

Trust is a very important factor. 

 

"Oh, I am not a golf instructor, I am a golf Monitor, I only inform people when they have a shitty golf swing - you have a shitty golf swing"

Edited by Hacker James
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It's funny to me this question came up today. I was on the treadmill last night watching Hank Haney and Tiger on Golf Channel, and I naively thought to myself, "how can Tiger learn anything from someone he can beat?". But I guess teaching and giving advice are not the same thing as playing. Magic Johnson was a great player and a lousy coach. After all the lessons and hundreds of hours I've spent reading wikis online I'm pretty sure I could write a comprehensive high school level paper on the golf swing.

Edited by Kalnoky
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@Kalnoky

yup, I have even written a couple of small golf swing articles, but not for the purpose of publication. Mostly just to toy with in case I ever wanted to start another blog. I already have a motorcycle blog on blogspot.com. I think the name I gave it was: Jimsmotomuses.blogspot.com But I will have to check (its been a while since I even looked). It is a combination of places visited, with the older posts, instruction and maintenance tips. The last golf thing I wrote was on Shot Shaping (basically just how to use ball flight rules in hitting draws and fades). I also wrote a set of instructions for building a golf hitting net out of pvc.

 

Edited by Hacker James
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I have done this, but in reverse. There was a thread where the OP had a particular question, and I gave a response. While pondering my answer I scrolled back to the original post to see exactly how he phrased the question, and noticed his handicap, which is 10 strokes better than mine!

I concluded my response with, "But what can I tell you? You're a 3 and I'm a 13!" He thanked me for my reply anyway. Quite a gracious individual.

I have never had an instructor other than my Uncle, who would offer me tips from time to time. I learned by reading instructional articles in Golf Digest. This was close to 50 years ago, so I basically tried to copy Nicklaus. Talk about wading through a multitude of ideas, that's what I did. But it did have the effect of getting me to learn about my swing very intimately.

Iacas wrote about his "mental flow chart". Once I had gained some proficiency, actually getting the ball to go where I wanted, the tips and suggestions in the mag were subjected to more intense scrutiny. Every reaction from "That makes no sense at all!" to "That's interesting. Sounds like it could work."

I think you need a filter like this, whether in casual situations or with an instructor that you have hired.

 

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A low handicap golfer that understands the golf swing is someone I'd listen to. Same for a higher handicap player that may have health issues or is older but understands the golf swing. The big question to me is how do you interpret knowledge of the golf swing. I'm taking lessons right now so I feel that I am developing at least a modicum of basic knowledge. Not enough that I would advise another person on their swing but enough that I can begin to tell if someone can give good advice.

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IMO the swing is exactly as complicated as one makes it.  The motion of the club alone in a simple swinging action is not that complex.

Complexity comes in when you look at it from the perspective of the body instead of club motion.

Ive commented quite a few times here on swings and usually will only do so if I have given the swings some time to review and have familiarity with what I am commenting on.

I understand my swing and I tend to only offer anything if I have gone through that swing problem with myself.

This is the main problem I have with a site like WRX.  You have a plethora of strugglers who watch you tube offering advice to beginners and even advanced players.  The lingo makes it sound like they are experts but 99% of what they convey is useless.

I will not comment on the pros on that place.

Fwiw my swing filter rejects far more than it absorbs anymore.  

I joined here because I appreciate honesty and common sense.

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You should see the advice dispensed on reddit. Not that there isn't good advice from a few people, but a lot of it is confusing and wall of text, you'll get downvoted for saying keep your head down is generally bad advice. 

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24 minutes ago, MSchott said:

A low handicap golfer that understands the golf swing is someone I'd listen to. Same for a higher handicap player that may have health issues or is older but understands the golf swing. The big question to me is how do you interpret knowledge of the golf swing. I'm taking lessons right now so I feel that I am developing at least a modicum of basic knowledge. Not enough that I would advise another person on their swing but enough that I can begin to tell if someone can give good advice.

I would agree with a lot of what you are saying. A lot has to do with perception and expectation. Similar (somewhat) to comparisons with brand names and a generic drug/medicine. Some people will only buy the brand names, when a side-by-side comparison will show the two are identical, yet the people buying the brand name will swear it is better for them, and indeed it might be owing to perception. The placebo effect is in this same vane. I am an older golfer, and I believe that I have a fairly good grasp of what a sound golf swing entails at least to the point that I can recognize good advice from that is not so good. Like a lot of people, that does not isolate me from looking at different tips from time to time which is not always a wise thing to do.  While I do not have any serious physical disabilities, I am nearly 75 and not as limber as I once was, my coordination is sometimes lacking, but on the flip side, I have a lot of endurance and strength for my age.  Should I give advice, I always try to include the caveat....this is what appears to work - for me. I also realize that I probably am lacking in the expertise to adequately impart any knowledge I have gained effectively and I would defer to the professionals.  So in essence  you have to be able to "separate the wheat from the chaff, realizing that there is a lot of chaff".

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4 hours ago, Kalnoky said:

It's funny to me this question came up today. I was on the treadmill last night watching Hank Haney and Tiger on Golf Channel, and I naively thought to myself, "how can Tiger learn anything from someone he can beat?".

Yea, fortunately for top athletes, that's not how teaching works. By that logic, Tiger should have stopped being coached in his early teens.

The ability to perform athletic skills and teach them are not tied together. It's why top athletes don't generally make the best teachers and coaches. Many of them execute high level moves without ever having to be taught to do them in the first place.

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6 hours ago, Hacker James said:

I would agree with a lot of what you are saying. A lot has to do with perception and expectation. Similar (somewhat) to comparisons with brand names and a generic drug/medicine. Some people will only buy the brand names, when a side-by-side comparison will show the two are identical, yet the people buying the brand name will swear it is better for them, and indeed it might be owing to perception. The placebo effect is in this same vane. I am an older golfer, and I believe that I have a fairly good grasp of what a sound golf swing entails at least to the point that I can recognize good advice from that is not so good. Like a lot of people, that does not isolate me from looking at different tips from time to time which is not always a wise thing to do.  While I do not have any serious physical disabilities, I am nearly 75 and not as limber as I once was, my coordination is sometimes lacking, but on the flip side, I have a lot of endurance and strength for my age.  Should I give advice, I always try to include the caveat....this is what appears to work - for me. I also realize that I probably am lacking in the expertise to adequately impart any knowledge I have gained effectively and I would defer to the professionals.  So in essence  you have to be able to "separate the wheat from the chaff, realizing that there is a lot of chaff".

It's probably better for a 5 hc to be getting posts from a high handicap than a high handicap getting posts from a high handicap. The 5 hc can figure out what is BS and what's not while the high handicap has no idea and can end up doing stuff that hurts his/her swing or even worse.

Beginners are the worst, because they are still very enthusiastic about learning to play the game, and hear all kinds of things that they can't verify. Then they attempt pass on this "knowledge" to other beginners. Those other beginners likely have no idea if something is correct or not, and end up trying all kinds of crazy stuff.

One thing that comes to mind is all the training aids people swear by. Some are good, but some are also really stupid.

To be able to determine if something makes sense or not doesn't take a lot of life experience per se, but more so experience in golf.

Most of the people who've been playing for over 10 years already know when something is bad or dumb or not. Many of them might still be an 18hc or higher, but they have a lot of knowledge. Then again, there are those who are perpetually in the dark. . .

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8 hours ago, nevets88 said:

You should see the advice dispensed on reddit. Not that there isn't good advice from a few people, but a lot of it is confusing and wall of text, you'll get downvoted for saying keep your head down is generally bad advice. 

I browse /r/golf on occasion, just to kill some time.

There are definitely some fun threads to be read, but you're right, gotta stay away from any instructional 'content'.
 

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2 hours ago, Lihu said:

It's probably better for a 5 hc to be getting posts from a high handicap than a high handicap getting posts from a high handicap. The 5 hc can figure out what is BS and what's not while the high handicap has no idea and can end up doing stuff that hurts his/her swing or even worse.

This sounds right to me. A couple of years ago, I might have changed the fundamentals of my swing based on a "tip," now I will consider whether that tip works at all with what I am trying to do.  For instance, I might hood the driver if I am hitting right, for the round I am in, instead of trying to work out during a round what is going on, but I wouldn't incorporate that compensation into my swing, as it would end up being a band-aid that retarded my development. Building a swing for some of us, especially those of us who started late in life, takes a lot of faith and involves steps backwards in results, even as they move us closer to an effective, repeatable swing.  Beginners just want the ball to go down range in bounds.

The best instruction I ever got took 30 yards off of my distance, at first, but after working on it for a couple of weeks, I got the yards back, plus some, and more accuracy. 

Edited by Moppy
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