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Is "Out of Order" Etiquette a Big Deal?


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I'll join the chorus and say that I always play ready golf when it's not match play. I won't even ask, because I'm not waiting on you to play my shot if it's safe to do so. I will generally defer to guys on the tee box with a birdie or better, but if they're not ready-ish to play, I'm going.

I, frankly, don't have time for people who care about honors. Play your shot if it's safe to do so.

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-- Daniel

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I'll just chime in again that the birdie honors thing is definitely something here at public courses, but sometimes people don't give a crap about it which is cool too.

But that just got me thinking about tee behaviors: in my experience, the foursome typically "finds" it's own unspoken tee order. And it stays consistent throughout the round. By the 3rd hole or so, we all kind of sense it, and rarely deviate after that  

Theres the fast guy who usually tees first, even if he blew up the hole. He just wants to get rolling on the next hole- and he has his club out before arriving at the tee.

There's the slow guy to tee, who usually putzes around at his cart, sometimes telling some story but sometimes just a turtle who is oblivious that he could be getting ready to play.

Then there are the guys who play 2nd and 3rd, who think player 1 is on too much caffeine and player 4 needs to get a clue!

I swear this happens more often than not when you match up random players! Ok OT I know, but it does factor in to the whole issue of order of play. Everybody is different. 

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I'm in my first league that plays ready golf, and I'm having some trouble getting used to it having played strictly furthest out all my life, but I'll adjust. Fortunately we end up hitting furthest away more often than not, but not necessarily putting. Not a big deal to me, but it's interesting I am finding every individual I play with has a different idea on how things should be...all good. And it is aimed at improving pace, that's a good thing. Most of my league moves along pretty quick, but there are a few who you'd think there was $100K on the line with every putt.

The concept of honors on the tees seems to have disappeared.

Playing through isn't done anymore? We waited on the group ahead of us on every single hole, and they group ahead of them was more than a hole ahead. But I don't rock the boat.

And I'm finding gimmies and out of bounds (I haven't seen anyone hit a provisional ball yet) subject to highly varied interpretations too. I just go with the crowd since I'm new to the league.

 

Edited by Midpack
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The only thing with putting is, if we've got a match going and I've put my ball inside my opponent's on a similar line, I will want to see their putt before hitting mine.  Even if I'm at my ball and could be ready to putt first, I will wait for them to putt. I think that's a pretty common thing.

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2 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

I think you're making my case.

It's not faster because 3 guys on the green are likely to interfere with your final shots. So I guess the question is what's faster?

Waiting for the 4th guy to get on the green, then you all putt?

Or delaying that 4th guy a bit more while the 1st 3 putt.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If you're hitting 5 onto the green as stated in the OP, it's both unreasonable and slower to expect others who are holing out with their 4th or 5th stroke to wait for you if they can finish the hole in the time you are struggling.

The only exception is if they decide to putt when you are ready to hit your approach, thus causing you to delay. As I interpreted the original scenario, waiting for one player who is having a bad hole would have slowed down the entire group.

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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4 minutes ago, billchao said:

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If you're hitting 5 onto the green as stated in the OP, it's both unreasonable and slower to expect others who are holing out with their 4th or 5th stroke to wait for you if they can finish the hole in the time you are struggling.

The only exception is if they decide to putt when you are ready to hit your approach, thus causing you to delay. As I interpreted the original scenario, waiting for one player who is having a bad hole would have slowed down the entire group.

Read more  

Exactly.

Unfortunately, we had a ringside seat to just such a thing yesterday.  The group ahead of us had finally made it to the green on 3.  One was in a green side bunker, while the others were on the green itself.  I asked my buddy, blade or chunk, as we watched from 60 yards out.  He said he'd leave it in the bunker.  I won.  Hard blade 30 yards over the green.  The remainder of the group WAITED while he raked the bunker and then walked completely across the green and proceeded to chip all the way back, almost dumping it in the same bunker again.  Again, Larry, Moe, and Curly wait for Bunker Boy to meander back and play his shot before playing theirs.  After all, he was away...  :doh: 3 more swings and he was finally in the hole.  Total elapsed time that group took from when they reached the green, nearly 15 minutes!  :~(

We caught them on the next tee box in time to watch two of them knock it into the junk short of the fairway.  When it became obvious that they had no intention of acknowledging us, we politely asked if we could play through while they searched for their balls, and thankfully they agreed.  

3 hours later, as we were teeing off on 18, we saw them driving up to the tee box on 12.  Not good golfers, true, but more than anything, they simply didn't move with any sense of purpose, or efficiency.  If we'd have had to play behind them much longer, I would have cut my own throat with my wedge!  

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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I'm all for ready golf, but I think it's rude for everyone to hole out before you've made it to the green. That's just me though. 

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

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14 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

I'm all for ready golf, but I think it's rude for everyone to hole out before you've made it to the green. That's just me though. 

I think it depends on the situation. If them holing out stops you from actually playing to the green, then yes it is rude. However, if they can quickly putt out while you are making your way to your ball or, as previously mentioned by @David in FL, raking a bunker before going to the other bunker to play another shot then I don't see a problem. It's also much more necessary on a course that's busy, or if the group is taking more time on a hole than usual potentially holding up the group behind/falling behind the group ahead, than if the course is pretty empty.

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18 hours ago, David in FL said:

It's a big deal if a group does not play ready golf...

This!^^

Ready golf should be the standard as long as you aren't playing match play.  If you aren't playing ready golf, then the odds are that you are playing slow golf.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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3 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

I'm all for ready golf, but I think it's rude for everyone to hole out before you've made it to the green. That's just me though. 

In my example from yesterday, I don't think it would  have been rude in the least, had the remaining 3 golfers on the green continued to play while Bunker Boy bounced back and forth.  Heck, I expect that my buddies continue to putt while I rake a bunker, even if I'm still "away" on the green.  An added advantage is that as they're doing so, I'm not feeling rushed to "catch up".

I tend to be more concerned about being rude to those that are behind us by holding them up unreasonably....

Edited by David in FL
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In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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It depends for me. If the course is backed up and we are waiting, then I give honor as it's due. If we aren't waiting, then whoever is ready goes first. 

- Shane

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49 minutes ago, David in FL said:

In my example from yesterday, I don't think it would  have been rude in the least, had the remaining 3 golfers on the green continued to play while Bunker Boy bounced back and forth.  Heck, I expect that my buddies continue to putt while I rake a bunker, even if I'm still "away" on the green.

If a playing partner is having a hard time, I'll putt out, grab the rake and tell him to go ahead and play and I'll clean up.  ....if we're really interested in pace of play, it is effective to treat it as the 'group' plays ready, not just eaach individual.  Looking and watching out for stray shots, picking up your partner's wedges if he left them on the wrong side of the green, all play into this.  Parking in anticipation of the next tee, etc etc etc

Edited by rehmwa
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Bill - 

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6 hours ago, RandallT said:

I'll just chime in again that the birdie honors thing is definitely something here at public courses, but sometimes people don't give a crap about it which is cool too.

But that just got me thinking about tee behaviors: in my experience, the foursome typically "finds" it's own unspoken tee order. And it stays consistent throughout the round. By the 3rd hole or so, we all kind of sense it, and rarely deviate after that  

Theres the fast guy who usually tees first, even if he blew up the hole. He just wants to get rolling on the next hole- and he has his club out before arriving at the tee.

There's the slow guy to tee, who usually putzes around at his cart, sometimes telling some story but sometimes just a turtle who is oblivious that he could be getting ready to play.

Then there are the guys who play 2nd and 3rd, who think player 1 is on too much caffeine and player 4 needs to get a clue!

I swear this happens more often than not when you match up random players! Ok OT I know, but it does factor in to the whole issue of order of play. Everybody is different. 

Read more  

That's a bingo.  (For the record, I'm usually caffeine guy) :-P


Played a (sanctioned through the club) match the other day which got me thinking about playing order a bit more than I ever did before.  In particular, because they paired us with two players who were NOT playing a match.  We let them know on the first tee that we were playing a match so as not to run into a situation where one of them gives us a putt and whacks it back to us without thinking about it.

The specific scenario happened on the ninth hole where I had a tricky 4 footer or so for par.  One of the other players' lag putt stopped about 3 1/2 feet away from the hole, directly in my line.  They were content on finishing the hole, and I was content to let them do so, but I felt wrong about obtaining a read on my putt from that.  No idea what the etiquette would or should be there, so I just turned away.

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23 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

That's a bingo.  (For the record, I'm usually caffeine guy) :-P


Played a (sanctioned through the club) match the other day which got me thinking about playing order a bit more than I ever did before.  In particular, because they paired us with two players who were NOT playing a match.  We let them know on the first tee that we were playing a match so as not to run into a situation where one of them gives us a putt and whacks it back to us without thinking about it.

The specific scenario happened on the ninth hole where I had a tricky 4 footer or so for par.  One of the other players' lag putt stopped about 3 1/2 feet away from the hole, directly in my line.  They were content on finishing the hole, and I was content to let them do so, but I felt wrong about obtaining a read on my putt from that.  No idea what the etiquette would or should be there, so I just turned away.

I woulda watched that thing like a fat guy eyein' the last donut on the plate!

:-D 

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In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

That's a bingo.  (For the record, I'm usually caffeine guy) :-P


Played a (sanctioned through the club) match the other day which got me thinking about playing order a bit more than I ever did before.  In particular, because they paired us with two players who were NOT playing a match.  We let them know on the first tee that we were playing a match so as not to run into a situation where one of them gives us a putt and whacks it back to us without thinking about it.

The specific scenario happened on the ninth hole where I had a tricky 4 footer or so for par.  One of the other players' lag putt stopped about 3 1/2 feet away from the hole, directly in my line.  They were content on finishing the hole, and I was content to let them do so, but I felt wrong about obtaining a read on my putt from that.  No idea what the etiquette would or should be there, so I just turned away.

This is mostly OT, so I'll spoiler it:

You can definitely watch the putt. Some players might get pissed, but it's not against the rules. Depending on the person you're playing in match play, that could be a good thing or bad thing.

I had a very similar situation happen to me this weekend. Playing a match with a two some who wasn't involved at all. I had a birdie putt on a similar line to another guy in the group who was away. He putted, and I watched. I had the read. Where you have to be careful is when the guy starts giving you advice on what to do. The guy was telling me go far exactly to go outside the cup. Since I wasn't asking for it, it's not against the rules, but it was annoying. I had my line, so I didn't want/need the guy's help. But I made sure to tell my opponent on the next hole that I'm not listening to any advice the other players were giving me. Which was true, because these guys shot 110 easily, so I don't know why they were giving me advice in the first place.

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-- Daniel

In my bag: :callaway: Paradym :callaway: Epic Flash 3.5W (16 degrees)

:callaway: Rogue Pro 3-PW :edel: SMS Wedges - V-Grind (48, 54, 58):edel: Putter

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1 hour ago, rehmwa said:

If a playing partner is having a hard time, I'll putt out, grab the rake and tell him to go ahead and play and I'll clean up.  ....if we're really interested in pace of play, it is effective to treat it as the 'group' plays ready, not just eaach individual.  Looking and watching out for stray shots, picking up your partner's wedges if he left them on the wrong side of the green, all play into this.  Parking in anticipation of the next tee, etc etc etc

Read more  

I do this all the time.  I'd hate to try and count every time I've raked a bunker for a companion while he worked out his issues, and not just around the green either.  Chunked shots from FW bunkers don't usually end well (I made a snowman on a par 4 a couple of weeks ago for exactly that reason :mad: ).

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

That's a bingo.  (For the record, I'm usually caffeine guy) :-P


Played a (sanctioned through the club) match the other day which got me thinking about playing order a bit more than I ever did before.  In particular, because they paired us with two players who were NOT playing a match.  We let them know on the first tee that we were playing a match so as not to run into a situation where one of them gives us a putt and whacks it back to us without thinking about it.

The specific scenario happened on the ninth hole where I had a tricky 4 footer or so for par.  One of the other players' lag putt stopped about 3 1/2 feet away from the hole, directly in my line.  They were content on finishing the hole, and I was content to let them do so, but I felt wrong about obtaining a read on my putt from that.  No idea what the etiquette would or should be there, so I just turned away.

Read more  

I've had the same situation, and it's not really mentioned as far as the rules are concerned so  I treat it as more of an etiquette issue.  I will tell my opponent that I won't watch a putt from one of the non contenders in the group if they putt before we do, but I won't tell him what he can or cannot do.  That's up to him and his sense of fair play.  I'll explain the situation to the others playing with us, and usually they are more than willing to cooperate with us when their play might affect the match.  

Unfortunately, it sometimes makes less experienced players uncomfortable to have to worry about whether they are doing something right or wrong that may affect this match that they have no stake in.  In such a case, I'll go out of my way to make them understand that while my opponent and I are in a sanctioned competition, it's not a blood match.  We are still all there to just have fun playing golf.

Edited by Fourputt

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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1 hour ago, David in FL said:

I woulda watched that thing like a fat guy eyein' the last donut on the plate!

:-D 

Hey, that's me on Friday mornings at the office!

8 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I've had the same situation, and it's not really mentioned as far as the rules are concerned so  I treat it as more of an etiquette issue.  I will tell my opponent that I won't watch a putt from one of the non contenders in the group if they putt before we do, but I won't tell him what he can or cannot do.  That's up to him and his sense of fair play.

That's sort of how I felt - if the roles were reversed, I wouldn't have minded if he watched.  In fact, earlier in the match, he made one of the casual players mark so he could hit his putt when their balls were right next to each other.  It could've been to avoid the guy standing on his mark, but I'd like to think it was also at least in part because he didn't want the "free" read either.

 

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