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iacas

110 of 111 NFL Brains Show Signs of CTE

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44 minutes ago, todgot said:

It's not just contact with the ball either... I've seen some horrendous head to head contact with both kids going for a header. 

Oh totally.  Accidental injuries like this are going to happen in all sports.

Football is really the only one, though, where you have a couple dozen kids intentionally headbutting each other many, many times throughout every single game and practice.

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32 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Football is really the only one, though, where you have a couple dozen kids intentionally headbutting each other many, many times throughout every single game and practice.

The whole culture is weird. Like they try to emasculate you if you hesitate to crash into each other at full speed. I had a friend growing up that was proud of the 3 concussions he sustained, like some kind of badge of honor. We were 10 at the time.

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Soccer does create the most concussions, but as others have pointed out CTE is about repeated jostling of the head over time. 

The NFL knows the math: a small and consistent decline in high school football will eventually doom the league to mediocrity. It's also worth noting the NFL wasn't always king. For decades baseball and college football ruled television, which is why the NFL was relegated to Sundays. Anyway I think sports fans will survive.

FWIW I love football and it is my favorite thing about the Fall. But I used to love smoking cigarettes too and I got over that. Health and wellness should be at the top of everyone's list.

 

Edited by Kalnoky

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2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Baseball?  Basketball?  Soccer?  Volleyball?  Water Polo?  You can also throw golf and tennis in there.  Band, cheerleading, debate team, math Olympics, etc, etc, etc.

Football and hockey don't have any "life lessons" that one of a zillion other team activities doesn't also have.

There's a good reason why this post got so many rep points. 

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2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

CTE is (I should say allegedly, I guess, I don't know if they're entirely sure yet) caused by repetitive, relatively small hits.  Football is really the only sport where that is a guarantee to happen.

But, yes, they are making rules against heading the ball.  In AYSO, it's a foul up through age 10.  And for the next couple of years after that, they encourage minimal practice with the head.

I'm surprised it's not already against the rules. I could have sworn that when I was a kid we weren't allowed to head the ball until high school. 

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3 hours ago, todgot said:

Just wanted to point out kids get concussed in Soccer all the time.  They've even talked about using a head protector or getting rid of heading the ball. 

I coached soccer many years and I have seen my share of head injuries.   I believe there are more serious injuries in soccer than any other student athlete sports.  Soccer is not a non-contact sport.  

Edited by dennyjones

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11 hours ago, dennyjones said:

I coached soccer many years and I have seen my share of head injuries.   I believe there are more serious injuries in soccer than any other student athlete sports.  Soccer is not a non-contact sport.  

I coached for 11 years and agree. We even had a couple of head injuries from kicks to the head (both ball and foot) and getting clipped from behind. We instituted a rule to protect keepers in U14 and down, where if the keeper has one hand on the ball, they are in possession and players are not allowed to kick it out. This reduced the incidents of keeper injuries.

Take downs from behind are a red card already in some instances.

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16 hours ago, dennyjones said:

Soccer is not a non-contact sport.  

Man. The way we played that game as kids in the 80s. Forget about it. 

Didn't think the teens reffing our games even had cards in their pocket.

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18 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

It's a little strange that he would retire so abruptly (it's not like this new study told us much we didn't already know), but I can't say I blame the guy.

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23 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Baseball?  Basketball?  Soccer?  Volleyball?  Water Polo?  You can also throw golf and tennis in there.  Band, cheerleading, debate team, math Olympics, etc, etc, etc.

Football and hockey don't have any "life lessons" that one of a zillion other team activities doesn't also have.

Very True. I'm partial because I played both Ice Hockey and Football. 

I venture to guess if the CTE brains that were tested were of modern era players. IE better helmets and newer concussion protocol. Awareness helps prevent things, but it's so late in the game that the next NFL players that pass away and have their brains tested will be 20-30 years. 

Not making an argument that it's not an issue, because it really is, but I wonder what the results would be if you looked at the data again in 30 years when more awareness and protective equipment has improved. 

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Maybe keep the helmets but take off the face masks. That might put a little fear back into them

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1 hour ago, kpaulhus said:

I venture to guess if the CTE brains that were tested were of modern era players. IE better helmets and newer concussion protocol. Awareness helps prevent things, but it's so late in the game that the next NFL players that pass away and have their brains tested will be 20-30 years. 

Not making an argument that it's not an issue, because it really is, but I wonder what the results would be if you looked at the data again in 30 years when more awareness and protective equipment has improved. 

Good point.  Most of these players are older.  The story doesn't get too detailed about exactly the era range of the players, but its a safe bet that most of them did not play much football at all in the current era with the more advanced helmets.  It would be interesting to see how well the newer helmets perform in regards to the small hits that they think are the cause of the CTE.

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1 hour ago, kpaulhus said:

Very True. I'm partial because I played both Ice Hockey and Football. 

I venture to guess if the CTE brains that were tested were of modern era players. IE better helmets and newer concussion protocol. Awareness helps prevent things, but it's so late in the game that the next NFL players that pass away and have their brains tested will be 20-30 years. 

Not making an argument that it's not an issue, because it really is, but I wonder what the results would be if you looked at the data again in 30 years when more awareness and protective equipment has improved. 

There have been arguments made that their brains will be worse. Guys "back in the day" wore the leather helmets and didn't hit as hard. It was more about kind of "grappling" at the line, rather than blowing people off of it. Seasons were shorter. Practice was less intense and shorter. Kids didn't have to play football since the age of 5 to be good enough to make it in the NFL (there was less strength and depth of field). Etc. 

The "newer technology" doesn't do much to stop the small repetitive hits, it only helps with the bigger hits, reducing the occurrences of concussions slightly. While at the same time enabling guys to go at people even harder with bigger hits.

So I think you might find the opposite: current NFL players may show HIGHER rates of CTE than prior generations.

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1 hour ago, kpaulhus said:

Very True. I'm partial because I played both Ice Hockey and Football. 

I venture to guess if the CTE brains that were tested were of modern era players. IE better helmets and newer concussion protocol. Awareness helps prevent things, but it's so late in the game that the next NFL players that pass away and have their brains tested will be 20-30 years. 

Not making an argument that it's not an issue, because it really is, but I wonder what the results would be if you looked at the data again in 30 years when more awareness and protective equipment has improved. 

I would honestly be surprised if the current players were much healthier, if healthier at all. 

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41 minutes ago, iacas said:

There have been arguments made that their brains will be worse. Guys "back in the day" wore the leather helmets and didn't hit as hard. It was more about kind of "grappling" at the line, rather than blowing people off of it. Seasons were shorter. Practice was less intense and shorter. Kids didn't have to play football since the age of 5 to be good enough to make it in the NFL (there was less strength and depth of field). Etc. 

The "newer technology" doesn't do much to stop the small repetitive hits, it only helps with the bigger hits, reducing the occurrences of concussions slightly. While at the same time enabling guys to go at people even harder with bigger hits.

So I think you might find the opposite: current NFL players may show HIGHER rates of CTE than prior generations.

Hadn't thought of this either - good points.

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4 hours ago, iacas said:

So I think you might find the opposite: current NFL players may show HIGHER rates of CTE than prior generations.

I see it like how there are many more arm injures by baseball pitchers. Baseball players are built to be stronger, and throw much harder than in the past. I remember when 95 mph was fast. Now it seems that any reliever can throw it 95-100 mph. It isn't surprising that more pitchers end up having season ending elbow injuries. 

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I've received a few letters over the years to either be part of a concussion study, and recently a lawsuit.  Quite a few of my old teammates have received similar letters.  We've all experienced concussions, but to this point no major issues.

 I feel worst for the old timer NFLers... those guys destroyed their bodies building the league, got paid peanuts, and get peanuts for their pensions.  The majority of them are essentially crippled by their 60s-70s

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