Consider What a 20% Ball Roll-Back Would Mean

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

So here is a question I have, how do you even dial a ball back say 20%?

The same way you determine the standard now. You simply move it backward 20%.

It's not going to be 20% for everyone. Some may lose 22%. Some may lose only 19%.

But you've still rolled the ball back 20%.

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Equipment/TPX3006-overall-distance-and-symmetry-test-procedure.pd

[jkelley9]

On 2/28/2018 at 1:33 PM, iacas said:

I don't feel as though you really read the first post.

EVERY course would have to be dramatically altered. EVERY course.

Truthfully, I didn't read all of it. Shame on me.

I do get your point about the 20% aspect versus your reference to 10%. I get that. I also see how all courses would have to be dramatically changed. I just feel like that would be... manageable, still. Then again I'm the furthest thing from a course architect. Hell I'm sure my depth perception alone is below average!

[mvmac]

6 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

They'll find a way. 

[Buckeyebowman]

21 hours ago, GolfLug said:

20 percent??? Good lawd...senior tees.. here I come..

Hell! I'm already there! If they knock me back any further I'll bee teeing off the ladies or the kids tees! The argument, or at least one of them, has been that too much real estate is needed to build courses that will hold a pro's game. But, look at Harbour Town. It's not that long from the tips, but it's a challenging layoutr due to the design. Maybe we should look at course design a little closer. Look at the Honda Classic just concluded. 15 and 17 are not really long par 3's, yet they played well above par. Why? Due to how the holes were designed in relation to the wind. There's nothing wrong with the game, leave the damn ball alone!

[MarvChamp]

25 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

The argument, or at least one of them, has been that too much real estate is needed to build courses that will hold a pro's game.

But I've never seen a PGA pro even want to play the courses I play; so why punish me? (I have played Colonial a few times, but not the Colonial set up for the PGA.) Best, -Marv

[Vinsk]

I still have not read nor heard any good argument for rolling back the golf ball. Poor Jack, he’s Jack, but he’s just making an ass of himself. Golf is hard. Always will be and the game will always win. ‘Making golf courses obsolete’ he says. Ridiculous. Jack is just sadly becoming a disgruntled old man. Hell he even admitted he doesn’t even watch golf anymore ....butt out Jack. Let ‘em bomb it. There will always be bogeys no matter how far they hit it.

   

[GrandStranded]

When was the last time anyone heard Jack say anything positive regarding the game? I believe his only concern regarding the it is keeping his name out there, so he can enhance his business ventures such as course design, club manufacturing, apparel, ice cream(???) etc. relevant. As far as courses becoming obsolete, when exactly has that been a problem? The one week a year a very select few hold a tournament? Usually on a course so private, or expensive, most golfers will never get on it anyway? (My heart bleeds for the Merion's and their memberships, LOL) Golfs governing bodies should worry more about the game the amateurs play, and growing it properly. Instead, they worry about nonsense like groove, anchoring putters, balls going to far etc. If Tour players are hitting the ball too far, let the Tour decide how to handle it. Jack and the USGA can round up every amateur who thinks they hit the ball too far, and they wouldn't be able to fill up a taxi. 

[boogielicious]

7 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I still have not read nor heard any good argument for rolling back the golf ball. Poor Jack, he’s Jack, but he’s just making an ass of himself. Golf is hard. Always will be and the game will always win. ‘Making golf courses obsolete’ he says. Ridiculous. Jack is just sadly becoming a disgruntled old man. Hell he even admitted he doesn’t even watch golf anymore ....butt out Jack. Let ‘em bomb it. There will always be bogeys no matter how far they hit it.

   

[saevel25]

17 hours ago, jkelley9 said:

I just feel like that would be... manageable, still. Then again I'm the furthest thing from a course architect. Hell I'm sure my depth perception alone is below average!

Let's take #18 at Augusta National as an example.

I see two design changes,

Option 1, you keep the distance from the tee relative to the fairway bunkers. So the design of the hole isn't drastically changed from off the tee. Then to maintain the similar distance to the green, you would need to move it. This would make the hole 383 yards instead of it's 460 yards.

Option 2, you keep the green were it is at, and move the tee box way forward to adjust for the 20% distance loss. The issue with this scenario is that it now takes the PGA Tour average drive that lands just in the first bunker and moves it into the 2nd bunker. This would allow longer hitters, even with the 20% decrease, to bomb it past the 2nd bunker.

Either option is costly. Not all courses can face these added costs, let alone the drastic changes to how the course will be played.

 

[JxQx]

39 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Let's take #18 at Augusta National as an example.

I see two design changes,

Option 1, you keep the distance from the tee relative to the fairway bunkers. So the design of the hole isn't drastically changed from off the tee. Then to maintain the similar distance to the green, you would need to move it. This would make the hole 383 yards instead of it's 460 yards.

Option 2, you keep the green were it is at, and move the tee box way forward to adjust for the 20% distance loss. The issue with this scenario is that it now takes the PGA Tour average drive that lands just in the first bunker and moves it into the 2nd bunker. This would allow longer hitters, even with the 20% decrease, to bomb it past the 2nd bunker.

Either option is costly. Not all courses can face these added costs, let alone the drastic changes to how the course will be played.

 

 

 

The members tee for 18 is 385, they wouldn't really need to rebuild anything (for the pros), also long hitters are always going to have an advantage no matter how much they roll it back.

Edited March 2, 2018 by JxQx

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, JxQx said:

 

 

The members tee for 18 is 385, they wouldn't really need to rebuild anything (for the pros), also long hitters are always going to have an advantage no matter how much they roll it back.

It’s still changes the hole drastically for the pros. Now where you might have a handful of guys bombing it over the bunker. Now you have dozens. 

It changes the course for the members. Now you need a tee box further up for them. Now the hole changes from a dogleg to a pretty straight hole. It also might take the bunker out of play for the members. 

[jsgolfer]

On 2/28/2018 at 9:07 PM, saevel25 said:

Zero is the magic number. 

 

+1

[Lihu]

The future of golf with a 20% reduction in ball distances, what the typical golfer would look like. . .

 

And the ladies. . .:

 

 

On the petite side. . .

[dennyjones]

An article from Golf Digest just popped up on my phone this morning.    This debate over the golf ball going too long has been going on since around 1936.   

[Golfingdad]

43 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

An article from Golf Digest just popped up on my phone this morning.    This debate over the golf ball going too long has been going on since around 1936.   

This answers one of @iacas‘s questions in the OP.  Roll back to when, you say?

1935 obviously!

[David L Yskes]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

The same way you determine the standard now. You simply move it backward 20%.

It's not going to be 20% for everyone. Some may lose 22%. Some may lose only 19%.

But you've still rolled the ball back 20%.

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Equipment/TPX3006-overall-distance-and-symmetry-test-procedure.pd

IACAS,      So about the opening post, the thing i've said many of times about the courses now is, why is it always about trying to make a course longer?     

nobody ever says Merion GC isnt long enough and that course always plays tough...  Or i believe you said the Honda classic course which is just over 7000...    jmo when courses are playing out to 7400+ , i think it's more of a penis showing competition lol   

dialing back the golf ball jmo is dumb..... there are already standards for the golf ball and clubs...   

courses can make the fairways narrower, greens slower lol or more challenging...  i dont want to see every course be "target" golf,  but there is always a way to make a course tougher...  but these guys are so good that they will still eventually figure out a way to go low...  

and for the average Joe Golfer.....probably 90% of us, are driving 270 or less.... and the courses we are playing if we are playing them from the right tee's we are playing 6500 yards or less  

 

[Vinsk]

On 3/2/2018 at 3:00 PM, David L Yskes said:

probably 90% of us, are driving 270 or less...

99% and much less. Lol.

[GrandStranded]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

99% and much less. Lol.

Tru dat. LOL