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Is Phil Mickelson Going Nuts?: Hitting a moving ball at US Open


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1 hour ago, Roosto said:

One of the first things I learned about golf is that you play it where it lies.  Let the ball come to a rest then make your next shot.  That's golf.

Yea, that's the most basic tenet, which of course illustrates the problem with playing or deflecting a moving ball.

However, you are entitled to declare the ball unplayable as long as it's not in a water hazard and play the ball from the original spot with a one stroke penalty. Phil was perfectly within his rights to let the ball come to rest, declare it unplayable, and re-putt.

Here's a link to another author explaining Rule 28, and he actually uses the downhill putt that ends up off the green as an example of applying it.

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36 minutes ago, iacas said:

Seriously? Cuz…no.

If Tiger had done that the reaction would have been way, way, way, way stronger.

How do I know this? Because when Tiger dropped from two yards further back, that got a much bigger reaction than this, and that pales in comparison to this.

That's not a Phil v Tiger thing. It's the fact that Tiger was in contention (tied for the lead?) and Phil is close to DFL. If Phil had done this while leading the tourney, then my guess is the firestorm would have far surpassed Tiger's.

Anyways, I don't care much to argue this; this tournament and Phil's place in it is one to forget. The USGA lost this one.

Edited by skydog
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2 hours ago, Zeph said:

I don't know if he disregarded the rules. He knew what he did and that he would be penalized for it. 

Except that's the thing, he DIDN'T know what he did because according to Beef he had to ask the rules officials what the rule was. Then he blatantly lied about knowing it all along and told the world to toughen up. 

He's got a screw loose, he can't admit that he didn't know something in the game of golf and the fact that he's getting praise about it from slugs around the world because they "do it all the time" is absurd.

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1 minute ago, skydog said:

That's not a Phil v Tiger thing. It's the fact that Tiger was in contention (tied for the lead?) and Phil is close to DFL.

Tell yourself what you want. Tiger got four penalty strokes and was discussed 10x more than this.

I think it's totally a Tiger vs. Phil thing. Had it been, say, Pat Perez even fewer people would talk. Had it been Matthieu Pavon even fewer people would be talking.

Common sense. Fewer people are talking about it and being "offended" by it because it's Phil. Had it been Tiger, it would have been a solid multiple worse.

2 minutes ago, skydog said:

If Phil had done this while leading the tourney, then my guess is the firestorm would have far surpassed Tiger's.

🤣

2 minutes ago, skydog said:

Anyways, I don't care much to argue this; like I said, I don't care much because this tournament and Phil's place in it is one to forget. The USGA lost this one.

I don't plan to forget Phil's behavior. And I doubt others will, either.

2 minutes ago, Crim said:

Except that's the thing, he DIDN'T know what he did because according to Beef he had to ask the rules officials what the rule was. Then he blatantly lied about knowing it all along and told the world to toughen up.

He's got a screw loose, he can't admit that he didn't know something in the game of golf and the fact that he's getting praise about it from slugs around the world because they "do it all the time" is absurd.

This.

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1 minute ago, Crim said:

Except that's the thing, he DIDN'T know what he did because according to Beef he had to ask the rules officials what the rule was. Then he blatantly lied about knowing it all along and told the world to toughen up. 

He's got a screw loose, he can't admit that he didn't know something in the game of golf and the fact that he's getting praise about it from slugs around the world because they "do it all the time" is absurd.

I'm not saying he knew the exact rule and punishment, but that's quite common. He knew he was breaking a rule and that he would get some extra shots on that hole.

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Read rule 27-1a. "at any time, a player may... proceed under penalty of stroke and distance."

(There is no need to declare the ball unplayable, etc.)

If Phil really knew the rules and was "using the rule to his advantage" as he claimed, this is the rule he would have applied. 

 

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To hear the guys on the tube this morning, they figure this was sort of Phil's way of offering a commentary on the course conditions out there. One he obviously felt he could make given the fact that he was out of the running. ... Really it was sort of a splashy way of quitting. Except, of course, they didn't kick him out.

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9 hours ago, Roosto said:

That's not the way you play golf, Phil.  This isn't ice hockey.

It did kind of look like hockey. Or maybe Phil can transition to foot-golf?

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He clearly just lost his cool during a moment of frustration, on a bad day, on a poor hole. 

Obviously not a good thing to do , but he's human, these things can happen. Phil's been around a long time and this is out of character, so I won't personally think any less of him for it. 

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1) If Phil is so smart why did he take the option that cost him an additional stroke?  Stroke and distance would have cost him 2 strokes.  What he did cost him 3 strokes - the one at the moving ball and the 2 penalty strokes.  So much for his claim that he was somehow strategically using the rules to his advantage.

2) There is a big difference between a penalty stroke for an illegal action, and 'paying' a stroke in order avail yourself of a relief provision in the rules.

3) Phil won over the NY crowd when the Open was first played at Bethpage.  It will be very interesting to see how they react today.

4) If he had a 3 stroke lead would he have done that?  No.  So much for his 'I didn't do it out of frustration' statement.  He did it because he knew it made no difference to his competitive situation beyond costing him a few thousand bucks in prize money.

The act was bad with horrible optics but that isn't the worst part of it.  His explanation and his excuses, unless he recants, apologizes, and withdraws will be a permanent tarnish on his career and his character.

It also has tarnished the US Open and the USGA.  Remember back in the Masters kerfuffle with Tiger they first ruled in his favor, but then changed based on his comments afterwards.  The same should happen here, as Phil's comment that he was preventing the ball from rolling into a difficult place is no different than the well understood situation of stopping a ball from going into a hazard.  They also ignore their own footnote under 14-5 where it refers to 1-2 - "(Ball purposely deflected or stopped by player, partner or caddie – see Rule 1-2).  'Purposely' seems to be the key, there, and his action was clearly purposeful.

18 minutes ago, Moxley said:

He clearly just lost his cool during a moment of frustration, on a bad day, on a poor hole. 

Obviously not a good thing to do , but he's human, these things can happen. Phil's been around a long time and this is out of character, so I won't personally think any less of him for it. 

Is it out of character, or is it letting the mask slip?  His excuses and explanations make me think the latter.

 

1 hour ago, Zeph said:

I'm not saying he knew the exact rule and punishment, but that's quite common. He knew he was breaking a rule and that he would get some extra shots on that hole.

But he claimed he was strategically using the rules to his advantage, while there was a controversy-free option available to him that would have cost him one fewer strokes.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

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29 minutes ago, Moxley said:

and this is out of character

I've always thought of him as a bit of a tosser, to be honest.

It was bloody rude to hang poor old Tom Watson out to dry in the post-Ryder Cup press conference in 2014. Have a row with him in private in the locker room? Sure. Make him look a fool in front of the sporting press? No. Tosser.

Now we have this latest example of, in one my favourite pieces of American-English, "Douchebaggery." Running after a still-moving ball on the green and swatting at it with his putter. Then, in classic and predictable Mickelson style, acting all goofy afterwards.

Whatever. The guy's lucky he hasn't got a cell on the same wing as Bernie Madoff et al. Maybe be a bit more humble in life.

 

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Put me in the group which thinks this wouldn't have been a big deal had he admitted he was simply frustrated. But from the little bit of what I've read, he lied about why he did it and continues to play that card.

In the end, he doesn't care what I think of him and I don't care how honest or dishonest he is. He's just a professional athlete and probably like most of the rest of us. 

I'm not paying to watch him play, nor am I buying anything he endorses. Which was exactly the case before this incident... when I thought he was an honorable guy.

As far as "apologizing" and then telling people to toughen up, that's an asshole thing to say since some of these people were his fans.

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Phil "knowing the rules" ?  He should know let the ball stop off the green.  Declare it unplayable.  One stroke penalty.  Putt over from the original location having learned about the speed required to get near or in the hole.

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1 hour ago, reidsou said:

Read rule 27-1a. "at any time, a player may... proceed under penalty of stroke and distance."

(There is no need to declare the ball unplayable, etc.)

It's still invoking Rule 28 ("Ball Unplayable"). It directs you, if you wish, to use the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1, IIRC.

47 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

It was bloody rude to hang poor old Tom Watson out to dry in the post-Ryder Cup press conference in 2014.

I thought that was okay. It enacted the change, and Tom Watson was apparently a massive douche the entire week, and Phil had had a private fight with him a few times already. That didn't seem to work, so… he went public. And change resulted.

It was in many ways the opposite of this event. That event was about honesty. This event was about dishonesty.

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Maybe after 2 1/2 days of being bludgeoned, he didn't care anymore?

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Tiger didn’t do that stuff. Even the media will credit him there. Phil skips out all the time.

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I look at PM's actions as more entertaining than anything else. It's a major, it is supposed to be tough to give it more importance than a regular tour stop. The current leaders are playing good golf against tough conditions. 

Should the full rules of PM's actions be enforced on him? Absolutely they should. 

Should the USGA apologise for how the course was set up? Absolutely not. Did they lose the course? IDK, because there are still some decent numbers being shot. 

So, some of these players get a little pissed, and whine that the course is too tough. It's set up too hard, and so on, and so forth. It's good for them to get knock off their self thought of, thrones of importance.

The USO is one of the few golf tournaments I actually watch. The other two being The Masters, and The Open. I watch all three for different reasons. The USO I watch because it is tough on the professionals. So what if the winning total is a plus score. Someone won it,  which is what supposed to happen. As a viewer, the winning score does not matter to me. 

PM lost his "cool" and did something really dumb. Daly did the same thing. Others have cussed, thrown clubs, spit in the cup,  had spectators remove, broken cameras, generally just been spoiled little boys, when they couldn't handle the playing conditions that day, and needed something/someone else to blame their poor play on. 

PM was struggling, while, if I read some reports correctly, someone else shot a 66. Did the 66 just have a lucky day, or was PM just unlucky. 

I know I am in the minority with my thoughts on PM's actions, but I did get good chuckle out of it. His "chase" to the ball is a classic. I will remember that instance of play probably longer than whomever the eventual winner is. 

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31 minutes ago, iacas said:

Tiger didn’t do that stuff. Even the media will credit him there. Phil skips out all the time.

People will forever debate if Phil is genuine or just putting on a show.  I believe its genuine with the way he spoke about it during his Feherty interview and how Palmer taught it to him.  Point is he IS the most engaged pro on tour when it comes to the fans and they received him just like normal today.  He wont miss those in this thread who now hate him, he still has PLENTY of fans, myself included.

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