Putting with the Flagstick In? - New 2019 Rules

[DeadMan]

5 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Here's the thing:  Even Bryson DeChambeau, a huge proponent of leaving the flag in, took the flag out at times.  A good wind was blowing and the sound of the flapping flag was a distraction.  Something we didn't even think about in our pre-rule discussions.  Also, because of the wind, there are times when the flagstick can lean toward the guy putting, in effect making a backboard that might kick out an otherwise perfect putt.

Well, yeah, I would think that wind changes the equation. You don't want the flag leaning towards you a ton. And if it's distracting you when putting, especially with the shadow of the flagstick whipping around in your line of sight, it might make sense to remove it when putting. 

[Vinsk]

32 minutes ago, iacas said:

Rewind and record that segment. Or tell me what the time stamp in the tournament was, as I recorded this round.

 

2019 Rules of Golf: Putting With the Flagstick In

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Bryson DeChambeau and Justin Thomas are in two different camps when it comes to whether or not to leave the flagstick in while putting.

I don’t know if this is the segment he’s referring to...but some pretty silly comments in this discussion.

”the flagstick takes up space, leaving it in takes up space that could otherwise be for the ball.’

’ I don’t care about the math or science...the hole just looks bigger without the flagstick.’

Wow.

embedding error...they have this segment on the Golf Channel App starting with brief interview with DeChambeau.

Edited January 4, 2019 by iacas
fixed link

[Missouri Swede]

Just now, Vinsk said:

’ I don’t care about the math or science...the hole just looks bigger without the flagstick.’

I guess he doesn’t subscribe to the “aim small, miss small” school of thought. Or physics.

[Vinsk]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

https://www.golfchannel.comhttps//www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-rules-golf-putting-flagstick

I don’t know if this is the segment he’s referring to...but some pretty silly comments in this discussion.

”the flagstick takes up space, leaving it in takes up space that could otherwise be for the ball.’

’ I don’t care about the math or science...the hole just looks bigger without the flagstick.’

Wow.

embedding error...they have this segment on the Golf Channel App starting with brief interview with DeChambeau.

Rules of Golf: Leaving the Flagstick in During Putting

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USGA’s Thomas Pagel explains the new rule regarding leaving the flagstick in the hole when putting. Look at the effects...

 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Here's the thing:  Even Bryson DeChambeau, a huge proponent of leaving the flag in, took the flag out at times.

Read this: 

Putting with the Flagstick In | Lowest Score Wins .com

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Dave Pelz published an article today in which he says this: The test results were conclusive: You will hole a higher percentage of putts when you leave the flagstick in. The hits just keep on comin…

18 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Also, because of the wind, there are times when the flagstick can lean toward the guy putting, in effect making a backboard that might kick out an otherwise perfect putt.

A flagstick leaning toward the player is an even better advantage. It deflects the ball DOWNWARD.

9 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Well, yeah, I would think that wind changes the equation. You don't want the flag leaning towards you a ton. And if it's distracting you when putting, especially with the shadow of the flagstick whipping around in your line of sight, it might make sense to remove it when putting. 

The only time to not putt with the flagstick in when you otherwise would is if the flagstick is leaning so much a ball won't actually fit between the edge of the hole and the flagstick.

In other words, that'll never happen on the PGA Tour, and will rarely happen in the general world of golf.

Otherwise, if the flag is leaning toward you, that's an even bigger advantage. It knocks the ball DOWN and INTO the hole.

Golf Central had a nice segment I'm going to try to record tomorrow and post. It's not the link @Vinsk posted above.

[Piz]

Why is this a thing?  The evidence is in...and has been for at least 30 years.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Piz said:

Why is this a thing?  The evidence is in...and has been for at least 30 years.

Because people are ignoring the evidence.

[mvmac]

 

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, mvmac said:

 

If you look close it almost appears the pin nearly knocked the ball out of the hole.  Nevertheless, I've been practicing with the pin in for the last month.

[klineka]

5 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If you look close it almost appears the pin nearly knocked the ball out of the hole.  Nevertheless, I've been practicing with the pin in for the last month.

I dont think it nearly knocked the ball out of the hole, rather it just moved the ball to the side, which makes sense as both the flagstick and the ball are round, and at certain speeds the ball wont hit the flag and drop straight down.

If the ball was hit hard enough to where it would hit the flagstick and bounce out, its likely that without the flagstick the ball would have been traveling too fast and would have ran right over the hole.

In the broadcast last night, I think it was Marc Leishman who had a chip/pitch shot that ran right up to the hole and hit the flagstick and deflected out and nobody said a word about it, because they knew it was traveling too fast to drop in, yet if that were to happen to Bryson or anyone else while putting, suddenly it would become a huge deal. 

[HJJ003]

8 hours ago, mvmac said:

 

Gah seeing that flagstick while they are putting just looks so weird on broadcasts....

[DaveP043]

13 minutes ago, klineka said:

I dont think it nearly knocked the ball out of the hole, rather it just moved the ball to the side, which makes sense as both the flagstick and the ball are round, and at certain speeds the ball wont hit the flag and drop straight down.

If the ball was hit hard enough to where it would hit the flagstick and bounce out, its likely that without the flagstick the ball would have been traveling too fast and would have ran right over the hole.

In the broadcast last night, I think it was Marc Leishman who had a chip/pitch shot that ran right up to the hole and hit the flagstick and deflected out and nobody said a word about it, because they knew it was traveling too fast to drop in, yet if that were to happen to Bryson or anyone else while putting, suddenly it would become a huge deal. 

If a ball was clearly going that fast, a deflection is likely to keep it pretty close to the hole.  If the announcers get it right (no guarantees), they could help define the benefit of leaving the flagstick in.

[boogielicious]

20 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

Gah seeing that flagstick while they are putting just looks so weird on broadcasts....

I remember seeing a broadcast of Arnie playing back in the 60s and they were putting with the flagstick in. I recall posting that question here on the site and someone replied that it was within the rules back then.

[HJJ003]

7 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I remember seeing a broadcast of Arnie playing back in the 60s and they were putting with the flagstick in. I recall posting that question here on the site and someone replied that it was within the rules back then.

Interesting. I wonder how long before it just feels normal to see it...right now its weird. 

[boogielicious]

Just now, HJJ003 said:

Interesting. I wonder how long before it just feels normal to see it...right now its weird. 

I agree. That is why I did a double take when I saw Arnie do it.

[rehmwa]

I don't see why it's such a big deal or wierd.  Stick is in, or it's not.  Seems a bit anal to worry about it or let it bug you if someone ELSE is doing it.

7 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If you look close it almost appears the pin nearly knocked the ball out of the hole.  Nevertheless, I've been practicing with the pin in for the last month.

no - not even close.  Simplifying it to the lowest level, if a ball hits the stick, that collision will absorb some of the energy from the ball - every single time.  If the ball made it to the stick, any excess energy is not needed at that point - so taking some away is always a benefit vs the old way.  I do agree it's a CHANGE that's more than just pace of play.  Clearly it's an advantage (for all putts, but for balls that would have missed it's dramatic).  The fact that people even need to do evals and experiments and discuss this just amazes me.  Even in golf, we must obey the laws of (grade school level) physics.

For Pros, I don't like it really.  Speed control of a putt is part of the game - this diminished one skill required.  It will not take long before they all figure it out and do it, at that level every advantage is needed - it's stupid to not take advantage.

For everyone else, I don't have a dog in the hunt so I don't care either way.

Edited January 4, 2019 by rehmwa

[iacas]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

I dont think it nearly knocked the ball out of the hole, rather it just moved the ball to the side, which makes sense as both the flagstick and the ball are round, and at certain speeds the ball wont hit the flag and drop straight down.

This.

And, this:

I've yet to see anything suggesting you should take the flagstick out, unless it's said by one opponent to another. :)

[DaveP043]

37 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I remember seeing a broadcast of Arnie playing back in the 60s and they were putting with the flagstick in. I recall posting that question here on the site and someone replied that it was within the rules back then.

There was no penalty for hitting the flagstick between 1956 and 1968.  I remember seeing it recently on one of the Shell World of Golf reruns, maybe in the Littler/Nelson match at Pine Valley.