LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Missouri Swede]

12 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Angel Cabrera can’t play either the Masters or US Open, 

Of course not. He's currently in prison.

[PNW]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

We are all aware of the Saudi/US business. And we get it. But there’s a big difference between reluctantly having to do business with an unscrupulous government to sustain and provide one’s own country with a needed resource for damn near everything , and some rich, spoiled and entitled shine-boys wanted to make more money to pay for their lavish lifestyles. This is about individuals grabbing the bucks and disrespecting an organization that has provided some of them quite the luxurious life.

Let’s be consistent and apply those standards to the PGA.

PGA Tour’s sportswashing problem in China

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Commentary: Is China using PGA Tour to distract from its human rights abuses?

"But there’s a big difference between reluctantly having to do business with an unscrupulous government to sustain and provide one’s own growth goals with a recreational, non critical pastime for the country club set, and their rich, spoiled and entitled PGA and PGA of China boys wanting to make more money to pay for their lavish lifestyles while ruthlessly crushing any competition that doesn’t give them the largest piece of the pie. This is about the PGA grabbing the bucks and disrespecting the “non-profit”, tax-exempt, monopoly standing while hiding as many details as they can get away with regardless of reporting requirements, just that this has provided all of them quite the luxurious life."

[Beastie]

On 6/12/2022 at 12:10 PM, iacas said:

It had no prestige.

For decades.

It’s always had the prestige of being the first………

Before the masters, the US Open, the PGA, before the US even had a golf course. Before Custer lost 10&8 to Sitting Bull,  before Gettysburg. First counts for something.
 

 

[boogielicious]

20 minutes ago, Beastie said:

Before Custer lost 10&8 to Sitting Bull

He lost 123-0. 

[GolfSwami]

The PGA Tour is a monopoly that exists in part because of special tax privileges. Monopoly and tax status are both likely to get challenged in all of this.  Competition is what protects workers. Most  are focusing  on the big names but the lower and mid tier players are likely going to see a big benefit.  Golf is very hard to crack into. It is expensive and difficult to get through Q school and most guys don't keep their card once on tour.   This might push the PGA Tour toward more guaranteed money which will give more marginal players a financial cushion. The 125th guy on the money list made right a  million last year, which after taxes, caddie and travel is okay but certainly not great for how tenuous that position is. That person could be on lesser tours pretty quickly. And the 200th player made $156,000 which is pretty subsistence even with sponsors and pro-am money. 

As far as the Saudis, I see this as a moral good.  Trade makes it so people who otherwise might hate each other find ways to coexist because it is in their mutual self interest. Countries that are economically interdependent tend not to attack each other. Saudi Arabia is closed off to much of the world. A benefit with sports and entertainment is there might be some (small) influence on the culture. 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Big Lex said:

But it undoubtedly always was a prestigious tournament.

Nope.

6 hours ago, Big Lex said:

It was identified as part of Jones's grand slam.

It was included as one of the four professional major championships when that concept became cemented in the world of golf in the 1970s.

And in between?

Exactly.

As I said, as late as 2003, prominent players were choosing to skip the British Open.

3 hours ago, turtleback said:

You are also mistaken about latter years scheduling conflicts between the BO and PGA.  As early as 1965, a year I chose at random, there was a month between them.  Even in 1960 there were almost 3 weeks between them.  In 1959 when Player won his 1st BO there were 4 weeks between them.  No one skipped the British or the PGA for scheduling reasons.  You are taken the already discredited Hogan story and extrapolating from it.

There you go.

3 hours ago, turtleback said:

When Player went every year in the pre-Arnie period he was a relative unknown.  It was winning the Masters in '61 and the PGA in '62 that made his name, not the '59 BO that had no significant players entered.

Yes, I often use the field of the 1959 British Open as a demonstration of how Gary Player's reputation is made to appear significantly bigger than it actually is.

That tournament was much easier to win than a modern-day Korn Ferry Tour event.

[Darkfrog]

1 hour ago, GolfSwami said:

As far as the Saudis, I see this as a moral good.

It that you, Greg Norman?

[dennyjones]

1 hour ago, GolfSwami said:

Saudi Arabia is closed off to much of the world

Begs the question, "Why?"

[Dr. Manhattan]

I'm pretty impressed with Jon Rahm's willpower to say "no" to the $400M. Rahm, McIlroy, Thomas (and Tiger) have all made valid points about how it's not a great idea to basically have a total reset when you have a ton of legendary names in the PGA Tour record books going back 90+ years.

There is plenty of room for improvement with the PGA Tour, but this LIV deal sure seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. At the end of the day, money talks. If the Saudis & Norman stay committed to this project, it's hard to imagine that they will lose against a competitor with far less money. 

[Zeph]

There were some rumors yesterday about Viktor Hovland, but he confirmed to the Norwegian Golf Federation that he "has no plans to play on the LIV tour". He also said he wanted to play against the best players in the world, and they are at the PGA Tour. For now.

[jmanbooyaa]

I was impressed with Rahm’s comments. He handled the questions well and gave his honest answers. Keopka was blunt and to the point. I got his frustration but had to know these questions were going to be asked. The media is loving the LIV golf talk. 

[Abu3baid]

15 hours ago, JetFan1983 said:

Now that doesn't sound like growing the game 😆

 

Since @Abu3baid came out of the woodwork for this, I might as well too. Strange days in professional golf, folks.

LOL

Two things.. It was news everywhere, so I actually came back to see what everyones thoughts were on it.. interesting stuff.

Also, I just so happen to be coming back to playing golf so figured might as well join in with an insight from the middle of it all.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Zeph said:

There were some rumors yesterday about Viktor Hovland, but he confirmed to the Norwegian Golf Federation that he "has no plans to play on the LIV tour". He also said he wanted to play against the best players in the world, and they are at the PGA Tour. For now.

I've heard someone else say this:

• If someone says they're not going to LIV, they might be.
• If someone says they're thinking about it, they're definitely going.

And some of these guys are giving themselves an out, because if the LIV Tour gets "the best players," then that will give them cover to move over.

1 hour ago, jmanbooyaa said:

Keopka was blunt and to the point. I got his frustration but had to know these questions were going to be asked. The media is loving the LIV golf talk. 

Brooks is almost certainly is going to the LIV Tour. Heck, I think that signing his brother was possibly a condition of Brooks committing. He didn't play the first event because of his wedding and the U.S. Open. I think he'll be in Portland.

[Zeph]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I've heard someone else say this:

• If someone says they're not going to LIV, they might be.
• If someone says they're thinking about it, they're definitely going.

And some of these guys are giving themselves an out, because if the LIV Tour gets "the best players," then that will give them cover to move over.

When someone says they "don't have any plans", and "want to play with the best", it really sounds like they would switch if enough of the top players did. I can have no plans to take a trip somewhere, but that doesn't mean I can't change my plans tomorrow.

[Double Mocha Man]

15 hours ago, boogielicious said:

He lost 123-0. 

Are you predicting the Warriors score for Thursday night?  😀😀😀

[mdl]

20 hours ago, Vinsk said:

We are all aware of the Saudi/US business. And we get it. But there’s a big difference between reluctantly having to do business with an unscrupulous government to sustain and provide one’s own country with a needed resource for damn near everything , and some rich, spoiled and entitled shine-boys wanted to make more money to pay for their lavish lifestyles. This is about individuals grabbing the bucks and disrespecting an organization that has provided some of them quite the luxurious life.

Wait what's a shine boy? Is this an insult I should have in the bag!?

[mcanadiens]

10 minutes ago, mdl said:

shine boy

Two-gun Tommy did kill Billy Bats over that in Goodfellas. It's what sealed his fate.

"Go get your shine box."

[The Flush]