Tiger Fires Sean Foley

[mvmac]

While this may be somewhat true it's not going to happen. Tiger has always had a coach and likes having one by his side.

Quote:

The former coaches have spoken: Tiger should go solo.

Butch Harmon said it yesterday (reported by Rex Hoggard).

“I don’t think he needs a swing coach. If I were advising Tiger I’d tell him, ‘You’re the greatest player that ever lived, just go to the range and hit shots.’”

And Hank Haney talked to Morning Drive, saying the same thing, reports Ryan Lavner.

“He certainly knows enough,” Haney said Tuesday on “Morning Drive". “I think he’d probably be better off just going and doing it himself. He’s the one that he’ll listen to the most. He’s the one that he’s always listened to the most.”

Though the former world No. 1 has all the tools to go it alone – access to TrackMan, an understanding of video technology and the swing, etc. – Haney said doing so could potentially pose an issue, because of Woods’ tendency to “get off on tangents and work on things that aren’t really part of the plan.”

“That’s the biggest challenge that Tiger would face in helping himself,” Haney said. “He has trouble staying on point and staying on a plan. ... It’s making a plan and staying on point, that is where a coach really can help, if he can do that.”

[Mr. Desmond]

That angle on Tiger isn't the best. And even placed where it is Tiger isn't hitting down all that much.

Brandel was concerned about shaft lean, but I think the better question is the lack of release ... lots of timing seems to be involved in Tiger's swing, whereas as with Justin, and then Hunter, you see more release so the club has a better chance of going where intended more consistently.

[Mr. Desmond]

While this may be somewhat true it's not going to happen. Tiger has always had a coach and likes having one by his side.

Agree.

Besides, whether one likes it or not, it's in the self-interest of Butch and Hank that Tiger  not have another successful coach. They need not divide up his  "success" pie.

He will have another coach. The question is whether it will entail wholesale changes, or tweaking. Tiger is now center pivot. So do you tweak the CP to give him more opportunity for success... and the better question, "Who is going to do his Edel fitting?" If he's going to tweak, why not tweak out the timing in his putting at the same time?

[nevets88]

I guess it goes without saying that Woods isn't getting the Stupid Monkey award anytime soon? :-)

[GolfLug]

Interesting. Foley doesn't believe in hitting up on the driver I guess? Both Justin and Hunter seem to have the ball teed back in their stance too much.

Also that Tiger video appears to be shot from an off angle.

Don't think forward shaft lean is a guarantee that the clubhead is travelling downwards. i.e., shaft could be leaning forward and the club can still be travelling up or flat in it's entirely, albeit with less loft.

[phan52]

I'll go back to something I posted over a year ago in another thread that got a bit contentious, and I think it is relevant again.Of course, the message gets lost because of the dislike of the messenger.

TIGER WOODS has been in love with the geometry of the golf swing for years now, and it's hurt him. The golf shot is more important than the golf swing. When your mind is consumed by mechanics, it puts a governor on creativity. The art stops, and the science takes over. - - Brandel Chamblee

Tiger was the consummate artist and he has become a mechanic. It is obvious in his body language on the course when he is constantly mimicking his swing between shots.

[taxgolf]

He needs to visit Bob Rotella then?

[JetFan1983]

TIGER WOODS has been in love with the geometry of the golf swing for years now, and it's hurt him. The golf shot is more important than the golf swing. When your mind is consumed by mechanics, it puts a governor on creativity. The art stops, and the science takes over. - - Brandel Chamblee

Brandel, all due respect. You don't know what Tiger is thinking when he plays tournaments. No one really does. No offense to you because you've won on the PGA Tour and I haven't, but I find it really, really hard to believe Tiger Woods is dumb enough to think "golf swing" during a tournament round. Shouldn't we give him a bit more credit than that?

I think it's bit -- I dunno -- easy? to blame the scary Trackman box or the high speed camera. I really think Tiger is feeling the shot out, visualizing it and all that on the course... but it's still not coming out well. And that's what's pissing him off so much. And the lack of practice and injuries certainly aren't helping either.

[billchao]

Dont' think lean shaft forward is a guarantee that the clubhead is travelling downwards. i.e., shaft could be leaning forward and the club can still be travelling up or flat in it's entirely, albeit with less loft.

I'm looking at the ball position, specifically. Tiger is known to hit down on the ball anyway, not sure he fixed any of that under Foley.

[jbishop15]

I'll go back to something I posted over a year ago in another thread that got a bit contentious, and I think it is relevant again.Of course, the message gets lost because of the dislike of the messenger.

TIGER WOODS has been in love with the geometry of the golf swing for years now, and it's hurt him. The golf shot is more important than the golf swing. When your mind is consumed by mechanics, it puts a governor on creativity. The art stops, and the science takes over. - - Brandel Chamblee

Tiger was the consummate artist and he has become a mechanic. It is obvious in his body language on the course when he is constantly mimicking his swing between shots.

I find the whole "artist" v "mechanic" premise to be useless. Ben Hogan was the consummate "mechanic" and he's regarded as one of the best players that ever lived. Harry Vardon was the same way. Then you have players like Snead or Mickelson, who were and are consummate "artists".

So, I don't think it really matters what you are. Skill shines through regardless of some half-assed label put upon by a half-assed golf announcer.

[Ernest Jones]

I find the whole "artist" v "mechanic" premise to be useless. Ben Hogan was the consummate "mechanic" and he's regarded as one of the best players that ever lived. Harry Vardon was the same way. Then you have players like Snead or Mickelson, who were and are consummate "artists".  So, I don't think it really matters what you are. Skill shines through regardless of some half-assed label put upon by a half-assed golf announcer.

Agree. File it in the same drawer as swinger vs hitter.

[thehook840]

Good idea, maybe Chamblee can at least teach him the rules of golf.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by phan52

I'll go back to something I posted over a year ago in another thread that got a bit contentious, and I think it is relevant again.Of course, the message gets lost because of the dislike of the messenger.

TIGER WOODS has been in love with the geometry of the golf swing for years now, and it's hurt him. The golf shot is more important than the golf swing. When your mind is consumed by mechanics, it puts a governor on creativity. The art stops, and the science takes over. - - Brandel Chamblee

Tiger was the consummate artist and he has become a mechanic. It is obvious in his body language on the course when he is constantly mimicking his swing between shots.

Originally Posted by jbishop15

I find the whole "artist" v "mechanic" premise to be useless. Ben Hogan was the consummate "mechanic" and he's regarded as one of the best players that ever lived. Harry Vardon was the same way. Then you have players like Snead or Mickelson, who were and are consummate "artists".

So, I don't think it really matters what you are. Skill shines through regardless of some half-assed label put upon by a half-assed golf announcer.

Well, I think you help make my point. Tiger WAS an artist. He played the game of golf with innate instinct and hit the shot required at the moment. I doubt Tiger was thinking about mechanics when he hit this shot. Unbelievable imagination, and it happened all the time.

It is when he got caught up in other things, like fitness for example, that he lost his way. I am sure a lot of the thought process over time was to lessen the impact of his swing because of injuries, but it is still him getting caught up in the mechanics. Sean Foley was just the wrong guy for him, IMO. Too technical.

[taxgolf]

Why would he be to technical?

I find it very difficult to think  what TW thinks. Too much guessing going on, in my view. As long as we do not belong to the inner circle of mr W., I would say that the rest is pure speculation or forming an opinion. Which is fine and nice to read in this topic.

Mr. Hogan greatest pleasure was going to the DR and hitting balls. Figuring out how to cure his hook etc.. He ended up with what is considered the best swing ever. To me, it sounds 'technical' also, no TM involved. So, what would be wrong with being 'technical'?

With a croocked body, too litlle time to give your body the much needed rest, the whole world wanting something from you, it sounds logical to me that you have a bad spell. And if the feeling is there that the current coach can not help to fix it (or you won't let him, or whatever), it is time to move on.

[jbishop15]

Well, I think you help make my point. Tiger WAS an artist. He played the game of golf with innate instinct and hit the shot required at the moment. I doubt Tiger was thinking about mechanics when he hit this shot. Unbelievable imagination, and it happened all the time.

It is when he got caught up in other things, like fitness for example, that he lost his way. I am sure a lot of the thought process over time was to lessen the impact of his swing because of injuries, but it is still him getting caught up in the mechanics. Sean Foley was just the wrong guy for him, IMO. Too technical.

And you're missing mine. Designating someone as a mechanic or an artist is totally useless because it means nothing. Literally nothing. One mans artist is another mans mechanic. Once again, Ben Hogan is the consummate mechanic. Once again, Sam Snead is the consummate artist. Both styles are successful.

Unbelievable imagination? What the hell does that even mean? You're telling me other players can't imagine the same shots that he hit? Come on. That six iron over water out of a fairway bunker was awesome, yeah, but its not hard to see that shot and think "hm, it would be really good if I could get it on the green from here." The difference is not Tiger's imagination, but his skill level; you could plunk that ball down in front of Steven Bowditch and he would more than likely fail (relatively speaking; he is still a Tour player) because of his skill level.

Tiger has literally always been about fitness. He has literally always been about changing his swing. After he won the Masters in '97, he didn't win again until '99 because he spent that whole year changing his swing . You'll remember that he was working with Butch Harmon at the time, a consummate "artist" or "feel" teacher.

Tiger won eight time the past two years. He held the #1 ranking. Lets not pretend his perceived lack of success is anything more than golf media being a total bag of human excrement. They have nothing to talk about so they make shit up. They bring in people like Chamblee and Tripp Isenhour to spew their inane and repeatedly debunked theories about the golf swing, and its just a total waste of time.

[Deryck Griffith]

Tiger won eight time the past two years. He held the #1 ranking. Lets not pretend his perceived lack of success is anything more than golf media being a total bag of human excrement. They have nothing to talk about so they make shit up. They bring in people like Chamblee and Tripp Isenhour to spew their inane and repeatedly debunked theories about the golf swing, and its just a total waste of time.

Funny thing is, most of the people in the field every week who are considered "great golfers" don't even have 8 wins in their careers.

The bar for Tiger is so high he himself can't even reach it anymore.  The media is crazy.  Tiger has 79 wins in his career and based on what we've been hearing lately, you would think he is a washed up has been.

[Golfingdad]

Unbelievable imagination? What the hell does that even mean?

Amen!!  I swear I throw up a little in my mouth every time an announcer says that somebody has imagination around the greens, or something to that effect.  You mean that he considered a few options before ultimately deciding on the one that he felt would get his ball closest to the hole?!?!?  Well, shit, what a freakin genius!

Also, while I'm here ... I can't stand when the announcers say "unbelievable" everytime somebody hits a good shot in a pressure situation.  Why is it so unbelievable?  For one, these guys are the best.  Second, you just saw it happen.  Lastly, you probably saw something similar last week or last month or last year.  Ugh!!

[rehmwa]

So Sobel on GC site writes "With Monday’s announcement that Woods is officially splitting with Foley to move in a different direction going forward, essentially he’s adding his name to the list of those who have labeled the coach a scapegoat during their time working together."

I don't get why moving on to another coach is automatically assumed as criticism of the coach.  I did not see this anywhere in Tiger's statement.

a couple players seem to be taking it that way, so do some writers

switching around might just be for a change, or might be totally unrelated

i don't like how the channel and some people blow up or read so much into things

can anyone reference me to any Tiger comments where he explicitly hacks on Foley?