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david_wedzik

Dustin Johnson Helped by USGA's Bungled Ruling

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3 minutes ago, Big C said:

And in my mind, "bungled" is too soft of a word for what the USGA did yesterday. I know it's tough to make high pressure decisions in the heat of the moment, but the USGA showed such complete and total incompetence in their handling of the matter that in my opinion, jobs should be lost. I'm not sure if Jeff Hall was the point person or just the mouthpiece, but whoever made the final call on this should be out of a job this morning.

I think that's the exact opposite reaction: the RO who made the initial call should be held accountable.

http://www.usga.org/about/mark-e-newell-2147496271.html

Not the topic here, though.

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4 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

If it were Sergio, he definitely would have crumbled.

Or ... he wouldn't.

Golf's pretty unpredictable. Shit happens. DJ has crumbled in every major before this one.

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Just now, iacas said:

I think that's the exact opposite reaction: the RO who made the initial call should be held accountable.

http://www.usga.org/about/mark-e-newell-2147496271.html

Yes, I realized that I was sort of answering a question that wasn't asked. 

That said, I don't necessarily agree that the RO on hole 5 bungled anything. At worst, he made the wrong decision on a call that was pretty borderline. I don't think anyone can argue that DJ obviously caused the ball to move. At most, it was a 60/40 or 70/30 type of thing. With time to reflect and discuss, I think the RO might have come to a different conclusion, but the decision wasn't black and white.

The USGA absolutely bungled the subsequent handling however, and I think it would be reasonable to say that by telling the leaders that their "might" be a penalty on DJ, many of those guys were affected adversely, to the benefit of DJ.

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I agree with @mchepp - DJ seems like one of the guys on tour who is the LEAST likely to allow himself to be rattled by pressure.  See what he did after the Fox cameraman "beeped" him during the backswing of his last approach shot?

But of course it could have affected things differently one way or another.

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20 minutes ago, jamo said:

Or ... he wouldn't.

Golf's pretty unpredictable. Shit happens. DJ has crumbled in every major before this one.

I don't agree with those who say he crumbled last year. He was trailing Spieth with four holes left and birdied 16, 17 and hit two incredible shots on 18. He actually got screwed royally the fact that ball stayed on the hill and didn't come down. He just hit a bad second putt that was aided by the bumpy greens. He seemed to bounce back from it nicely, which goes to my point that he has a way of tuning things out and just doing his own thing.

As for Sergio, I think he's getting closer. There was a time where Sergio was a headcase on the last day and was trying too hard to win, but I think he's getting the mentality of "If I win, I win...if I don't, I don't....Que Sera Sera." He's not letting his head get in the way as much anymore, and that's why I think a major is coming sooner rather than later for him.

Edited by ChrisP

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He hasn't been the best closer but I am in the who knows camp. When he blew it last year it didn't seem to have any lasting affect. The media speculated he was emotionally destroyed by it then it was revealed he was cool, calm and collected.

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Spoiler
16 minutes ago, Big C said:

That said, I don't necessarily agree that the RO on hole 5 bungled anything. At worst, he made the wrong decision on a call that was pretty borderline.

OT so I'll be quick: he absolutely bungled things. He did not determine any of the things listed in 18-2/0.5.

16 minutes ago, Big C said:

I don't think anyone can argue that DJ obviously caused the ball to move. At most, it was a 60/40 or 70/30 type of thing.

That's all the rules require. Even less, technically.

16 minutes ago, Big C said:

With time to reflect and discuss, I think the RO might have come to a different conclusion, but the decision wasn't black and white.

He didn't need time; he needed to get the facts straight.

16 minutes ago, Big C said:

The USGA absolutely bungled the subsequent handling

I disagree.

As I said, they had two choices at that point:

  • stand by their RO goofing up.
  • try to get the right ruling.

I do think they could have applied the stroke penalty on the 12th tee, but they felt that it would delay play and that would affect play more than the stroke, and they didn't want to do that.

All OT response to @Big C.

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2 hours ago, ChrisP said:

To add on to my point, I think it was harder to play "not knowing whether you're going to lose a stroke" than just assessing him then and there. That would drive me crazy. If I was told after the 5th green I lost a stroke, I'd be peeved but I'd move on with it. If I was told "We may or may not penalize you", it'd eat away at me.

I agree, not knowing is worse than knowing and would cause more mental/focus problems. The mind desires resolution, imo.

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Maybe?

In DJ's own words he thought it was 50/50, but judging from the rules officials description of what they said to him they were kind of encouraging him to take the penalty. If DJ had read between the lines a bit more he may have understood they had already made their decision.

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

I agree with @mchepp - DJ seems like one of the guys on tour who is the LEAST likely to allow himself to be rattled by pressure.  See what he did after the Fox cameraman "beeped" him during the backswing of his last approach shot?

But of course it could have affected things differently one way or another.

I thought it was the camera based on his reaction. WTH?

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2 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I thought it was the camera based on his reaction. WTH?

We've seen enough shots from other angles to know that there can be several people behind that camera, but he was looking right at it.  So it seems it was either him or the person lugging around the cords/accessories you always see with the cameraman.

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I think if DJ walked off that 18th green tied or with a 1 or 2 shot lead, he would have definitely fought it hard and may have been able to make his case...although prolly wouldn't have won and there would be major uproar and chaos amongst the media and players. The fact he walked off with a big lead he probably told them to just deduct it...he didn't care.

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3 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

I think if DJ walked off that 18th green tied or with a 1 or 2 shot lead, he would have definitely fought it hard and may have been able to make his case...although prolly wouldn't have won and there would be major uproar and chaos amongst the media and players. The fact he walked off with a big lead he probably told them to just deduct it...he didn't care.

I pretty much agree with this.

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Actually, I think the reverse would be true, although I'm not sure DJ could have played any better.  It seemed obvious that once knowledge of the potential penalty stroke started filtering through the crowd, DJ immediately was the overwhelming recipient of their support.  I think that anyone who is familiar with the events at the PGA Championship in 2010, (right, wrong, or indifferent based on allowing fans to walk through a bunker), there was a definite groundswell of support to prevent the USGA from invoking a penalty shot rule would that determine the outcome.  So, no, they didn't help him by waiting to the 12th, but they could have announced it earlier and he would have had their support that much sooner.

And the beauty of the whole thing is that it doesn't matter if the fans even had a clue on how to interpret the rules, they will make their own interpretation.  What seems fair to the USGA and to the fans are two different things.

It is easy to sit an keyboard and pen theoretical outcomes, but I would think it is quite different to be part of the gallery that gets wind of these things and tries to will someone to a win.  And Lowry was the recipient of the reverse.

John

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5 hours ago, ChrisP said:

I don't agree with those who say he crumbled last year. He was trailing Spieth with four holes left and birdied 16, 17 and hit two incredible shots on 18. He actually got screwed royally the fact that ball stayed on the hill and didn't come down. He just hit a bad second putt that was aided by the bumpy greens. He seemed to bounce back from it nicely, which goes to my point that he has a way of tuning things out and just doing his own thing.

As for Sergio, I think he's getting closer. There was a time where Sergio was a headcase on the last day and was trying too hard to win, but I think he's getting the mentality of "If I win, I win...if I don't, I don't....Que Sera Sera." He's not letting his head get in the way as much anymore, and that's why I think a major is coming sooner rather than later for him.

Sergio is my boy.His honesty and  emotion is great compared to the robots.Actually seems to pull for his playing partners cept Tiger which I thinks awesome.Sergio was too concerned with the lil bird.after that he went 3 over.

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8 hours ago, iacas said:

What if instead of DJ it was Sergio Garcia? :-)

Then I'd really hate to see the lie he would've gotten from his drive on 15

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Twitter was lit up today by many pro's over USGA officiating.

Spieth, Rory, Rickie and many others rant on USGA, even Tiger chimed in.....

 

Quote
Quote

Players are furious about the Dustin Johnson rules fiasco

Dustin Johnson got penalized one stroke for his actions on the fifth hole during the final round of the U.S. Open. But the situation was a lot more complicated than that suggested.

It all seemed so simple at first. The 31-year-old missed a short putt for birdie on the hole but then he stroked in his par effort. Fair enough. But not so fast!

The issue: As Johnson got set to putt for par on that fifth hole, he backed away because his ball had moved. He brought in a rules official and he was told he would not be assessed a penalty. Johnson told the official he hadn’t grounded his club when addressing his ball. Therefore the official felt Johnson hadn’t caused the ball to move. The rule on this was changed in 2012 because the year before, Webb Simpson was given a costly one-stroke penalty late in the Zurich Classic when wind moved his ball on a green after he addressed it. He would lose that tournament in a playoff. So with the change, Johnson, rather than getting a penalty, was OK.

Nope.

The USGA noticed something in the footage after the initial ruling that led them to believe that Johnson had indeed caused his ball to move on the putt in question. They told Johnson on No. 12 that they would be reviewing the putt after the round to possibly assess him a penalty.

“We put him on notice based on what we saw it could lead to a penalty stroke,” said the USGA’s managing director Jeff Hall. “We thought that was the only thing we could do. We think it was fair that we notify Dustin and give him the opportunity to see what we saw at the end of the round.”

In that post-round review, the USGA deemed that Johnson had caused his ball to move. That meant a one-stroke penalty after all. It all worked out in the end, as it only pushed the American’s winning margin down from four to three.

But how did everyone react? Let’s just say the USGA’s series of actions did not sit well with players watching on TV. Plenty voiced their displeasure (and were not shy about it) as the penalty fiasco threatened to make a mockery of the final round.

as the penalty fiasco threatened to make a mockery of the final round.

And even after everything worked out, the pros did not back down.

And just think, Johnson won. Imagine the explosion of rage if he’d lost because of this penalty.

 

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