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AltGolfer

Stop Lying About Your Distance - It's Pissing Me Off (Rant Thread)

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3 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

If I'm getting a lot of nGIRs I could save about 9 strokes/rd with short game and putting practice and maybe shoot in the mid 80s regularly so long as I don't neglect full swing practice. To seriously get better I'd have to devote more time to full swing practice. My joints won't handle that well. Not at my age.

I don’t know why more people don’t practice th short game more. It is FREE and you can get a lot done in 1 to 2 hours chipping and pitching to targets. I wouldn’t say it is like riding a bike, since you can get rusty. But if you put in some concentrated practice for a few weekends it can really pay off. Shave some strokes, gain some confidence and become a whole new golfer. One of these guys I mentioned that can really send the ball was absolutely ridiculous with a wedge in his hand. You see video instruction with 9 o’clock and 10 o’clock positions? I swear this guy had 6:30 and 7 o’clock positions and he decelerated like crazy all of the time. Ever see a 30 yard chip shot go 10 yards? How about 4 or 5 times a round? Unbelievable how bad that part of his game was and he thought he was a decent golfer because occasionally he found the fairway maybe close to 300 yards out. 

One time we were at an industry outing with a scramble format and the tees were backed up with maybe half a dozen people watching him tee off on a par 5. He cranks his 100+ mph swing and tops it. Classic worm burner. Being arrogant he tees up another just to show everyone that he doesn’t suck and tops another. Now thoroughly pissed and embarrassed he tees up a third and hooks it OB on a hole with a super wide fairway. Gotta love the big hitters.

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42 minutes ago, Carl3 said:

Ever see a 30 yard chip shot go 10 yards? How about 4 or 5 times a round? Unbelievable how bad that part of his game was and he thought he was a decent golfer because occasionally he found the fairway maybe close to 300 yards out. 

One time we were at an industry outing with a scramble format and the tees were backed up with maybe half a dozen people watching him tee off on a par 5. He cranks his 100+ mph swing and tops it. Classic worm burner. Being arrogant he tees up another just to show everyone that he doesn’t suck and tops another. Now thoroughly pissed and embarrassed he tees up a third and hooks it OB on a hole with a super wide fairway. Gotta love the big hitters.

I've made a 30 yd chip shot go 10 yds - fat shot. Last time out, 455 yd par 5, 260 yd drive dead center of the fairway, I was 10 yds off the green in 2, not short, to the right of the green with a decent lie, and got a bogey. This is why I have a 20 HC.

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12 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

 I was 10 yds off the green in 2, not short, to the right of the green with a decent lie, and got a bogey. This is why I have a 20 HC.

If that's your normal hole outcome then yes. But it's not the norm that a 20hcp stripes the fairway and is within 10yds of the green for birdie only to make bogey. More often than not he/she is taking more shots to get to the green due to penalties, poor drives, failed approach shots. Your short game is what gave you a bogey on that hole. But I doubt it's why you are a 20hcp. 

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3 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

If that's your normal hole outcome then yes. But it's not the norm that a 20hcp stripes the fairway and is within 10yds of the green for birdie only to make bogey. More often than not he/she is taking more shots to get to the green due to penalties, poor drives, failed approach shots. Your short game is what gave you a bogey on that hole. But I doubt it's why you are a 20hcp. 

It's my game from 120 yds and in.

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30 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

It's my game from 120 yds and in.

That’s possible. But your 195yd second shot on that par 5 was 10yds off the green? So how far from the hole? But yes, taking 4 shots to get in from 10yds off the green is a glaring weakness if you do that on most your holes. I’m just saying I’ve played golf with strangers my whole life and it’s not common to see a bogey golfer stripe their drives and approach shots all day and keep making bogeys from poor chipping and putting. I’ve seen good drivers who then dub their approach, then hit a good shot in, miss the 6’ coming back for bogey and say ‘damn putting is where I blow my score.’ 

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On 10/22/2018 at 2:16 PM, DrvFrShow said:

So what I'm saying is that distance and handicap can be mutually exclusive to a point. If I'm getting a lot of nGIRs I could save about 9 strokes/rd with short game and putting practice and maybe shoot in the mid 80s regularly so long as I don't neglect full swing practice. To seriously get better I'd have to devote more time to full swing practice. My joints won't handle that well. Not at my age.

Why don't you? Short game practice is easy... and fun (so many variations to play vs. hit long and straight). I was a very poor short game golfer many years ago, and fixed that before I started working on my long game again. You're right, you'd score a lot better. Also short game is not as hard on your body, so I would definitely spend some time there if I was in your shoes.

The main short game key (even with putting to some extent)? Preset your weight forward. It took me waaaayyy too long to figure this out, but when I did, eventually, rapid progress ensued. Good luck!

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On 10/22/2018 at 10:59 PM, DrvFrShow said:

It's my game from 120 yds and in.

I'm not sure why people have such a hard time believing this. Is it typical? No. But it's not like everyone has the same weakness. It reminds me of a couple of YouTube posts that claim if you employ a certain strategy, you're guaranteed to break 90 (or 80 or whatever). They think everyone has the exact same weakness, therefore one fix will cure us all. 

You strike the ball better than I do @DrvFrShow and my poor short game and putting are at least as costly as my full swing in preventing me from getting below 18. So if you or anyone else claims the short game is hurting their score the most, I'm not going to doubt it. 

It's not like we're claiming our short game is keeping us from getting to scratch. Some folks will take a fact that applies to the general population and want to apply it to everyone. And of course, who the hell are you to claim you know your own game as much as someone online who's never seen you play (sarcasm).

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On 8/26/2018 at 5:16 AM, AltGolfer said:

Why do you care if i care so much? It's my problem not yours?

Exactly! Rant fever!  I'm digging on this Rant Thread. You're a Hyper-Focused dude. I like it!!

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I am just not understanding the correlation being drawn between swing speed and handicap because one is not in anyway a reflection of the other.  I am a high speed swinger and do carry the ball well over 300 yards and I am a 5 handicap.  Just because I swing fast doesn't mean I should be on tour just as a long drive competitor wouldn't be nor a putt putt champion.  Swing speed is a gift and a curse because it gives you the capacity to overpower a golf course when it is all working or it can be your undoing when things aren't going so well. The same miss at 105 mph is greatly magnified at 124 mph and so power must always be kept under control. 

You only have to be able to swing at about 105 mph to have a ball end up at 300 yards with perfect launch and fairway conditions and I believe a lot of people are capable of that, but to carry a ball 300 yards you need about 119 mph and not many have that kind of speed. Back to the point though I just don't understand the argument that a person can't hit it far and be a bad golfer.   It just means that you make mistakes at a higher speed so your bad shots look worse even when they are equivalent to a miss at a slower speed.  

Sure a lot of people don't realize just how far 300 yards is but you don't have to be hitting a driver to be able to tell that a person is a long hitter or not because it would translate through the whole bag.  If the person hits a 48 degree pitching wedge 150 or more...they can hit a driver 300 yards I promise.  If they hit 7 iron from 150 then they can only hit a ball 300 yards on a perfect strike in perfect fairway conditions.  It is what it is and the science of things can't be cheated.  

For stop the inevitable "you don't hit it 300 yards posts before they start ( I have learned to just post the numbers and get it over with rather than explain myself !!): 

Driver numbers.jpg

I am just not understanding the correlation being drawn between swing speed and handicap because one is not in anyway a reflection of the other.  I am a high speed swinger and do carry the ball well over 300 yards and I am a 5 handicap.  Just because I swing fast doesn't mean I should be on tour just as a long drive competitor wouldn't be nor a putt putt champion.  Swing speed is a gift and a curse because it gives you the capacity to overpower a golf course when it is all working or it can be your undoing when things aren't going so well. The same miss at 105 mph is greatly magnified at 124 mph and so power must always be kept under control. 

You only have to be able to swing at about 105 mph to have a ball end up at 300 yards with perfect launch and fairway conditions and I believe a lot of people are capable of that, but to carry a ball 300 yards you need about 119 mph and not many have that kind of speed. Back to the point though I just don't understand the argument that a person can't hit it far and be a bad golfer.   It just means that you make mistakes at a higher speed so your bad shots look worse even when they are equivalent to a miss at a slower speed.  

Sure a lot of people don't realize just how far 300 yards is but you don't have to be hitting a driver to be able to tell that a person is a long hitter or not because it would translate through the whole bag.  If the person hits a 48 degree pitching wedge 150 or more...they can hit a driver 300 yards I promise.  If they hit 7 iron from 150 then they can only hit a ball 300 yards on a perfect strike in perfect fairway conditions.  It is what it is and the science of things can't be cheated.  

For stop the inevitable "you don't hit it 300 yards posts before they start ( I have learned to just post the numbers and get it over with rather than explain myself !!): 

Driver numbers.jpg

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47 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I am a high speed swinger and do carry the ball well over 300 yards and I am a 5 handicap.

Umm, your carry in that image is averaging 290 yards. You don't carry the ball well over 300 yards, you end up having drives well over 300 yards with roll. There is a difference. Unless those are not your numbers, then my bad ;)

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27 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Umm, your carry in that image is averaging 290 yards. You don't carry the ball well over 300 yards, you end up having drives well over 300 yards with roll. There is a difference. Unless those are not your numbers, then my bad 😉

So I meant my total yardage is over 300 yards!!  I don't carry it over 300 anymore as those days are gone for me! They are my numbers I assure you !! I feel like I'm going to have to actually post swings of me hitting the shots at this point to show I'm not a keyboard warrior !! 

3 wood numbers !!

20160429_191157.jpg

Edited by Righty to Lefty

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14 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm not sure why people have such a hard time believing this. Is it typical? No. But it's not like everyone has the same weakness. It reminds me of a couple of YouTube posts that claim if you employ a certain strategy, you're guaranteed to break 90 (or 80 or whatever). They think everyone has the exact same weakness, therefore one fix will cure us all.  

A bit OT, but in LSW, @iacas claims (I'm paraphrasing here) that on average, the mid-high handicapper will save more strokes working on full swing than working on short game. That does not mean everyone. My take, having read the book, is that this conclusion is based on both numbers and teaching experience. I have no doubt that this is good advice to many golfers. Even if the conclusion resulted from a rigorously reviewed repeatable experiment with a good sample size (which, no offense intended, I doubt it was), the advice would still only be applicable "on average". It doesn't mean it's the right advice for you. Just like a doctor can say that on average, you can benefit from such and such a drug, every patient needs to be evaluated before treatment.

The other piece of this is that people are terrible at assessing their own weaknesses. The only way to know for sure is keep accurate statistics (no cheating!) and see where you're losing the most strokes.

 

Edited by chspeed

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14 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

If they hit 7 iron from 150 then they can only hit a ball 300 yards on a perfect strike in perfect fairway conditions.

Even this is a stretch.  I carry a 7i 155 and with PERFECT fairway conditions have topped out at about 285.  I'd either need a lot of wind or to be teeing off in Mexico City to have a crack at 300. 

43 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Back to the point though I just don't understand the argument that a person can't hit it far and be a bad golfer.

I think you're oversimplifying it.  That isn't the argument.  The argument is that hitting the ball further with a certain degree of accuracy makes it easier to score better. 

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

If the person hits a 48 degree pitching wedge 150 or more...they can hit a driver 300 yards I promise.

Completely agree.  But you can't hit a PW 150 consistently with power alone, you need technique.  Good technique means a better player.  I entirely agree with you, you can absolutely be a bad golfer with a high swing speed, if you end up in the woods.  In my experience, my scores dropped when I started keeping the tee ball in play.  Then, my scores dropped again when I avoided duffs/worm burners around the greens.  Then they dropped more once I got more distance off the tee from better technique.  Same swing speed, but less high, weak and right off the tee (which is still my miss).  To put it another way, consider three scenarios:

1:Technique ONLY: 6 iron distance to the green, in fairway

2:Power ONLY: PW distance to green, in the woods

3:Technique & Power: PW distance to green, in the fairway

Who's got a better chance of scoring better over 18 holes? I agree that you are not a 5 because you have power, you obviously have good technique.  The point is that your swing speed makes it easier to be a 5 when coupled with your technique.

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16 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

They are my numbers I assure you !! I feel like I'm going to have to actually post swings of me hitting the shots at this point to show I'm not a keyboard warrior !! 

I am not saying you didn't hit them. I just noticed a discrepancy between what you said and what the numbers are saying.

13 minutes ago, chspeed said:

A bit OT, but in LSW, @iacas claims (I'm paraphrasing here) that on average, the mid-high handicapper will save more strokes working on full swing than working on short game. That does not mean everyone. My take, having read the book, is that this conclusion is based on both numbers and teaching experience. I have no doubt that this is good advice to many golfers. Even if the conclusion resulted from a rigorously reviewed repeatable experiment with a good sample size (which, no offense intended, I doubt it was), the advice would still only be applicable "on average". It doesn't mean it's the right advice for you. Just like a doctor can say that on average, you can benefit from such and such a drug, every patient needs to be evaluated before treatment.

A high majority of people should work on their long game.

At worst, a bad short game will save you about 5-6 strokes. A worst, a bad long game can cost you way more than that.

 

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22 minutes ago, chspeed said:

 It doesn't mean it's the right advice for you. 

I agree 100%, but that wasn’t the point of my post. It was more that an intelligent golfer can make a statement about her game and have folks quickly indicate she’s likely incorrect in her assessment simply based on the average of the population or on their observations of others.

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25 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I agree 100%, but that wasn’t the point of my post. It was more that an intelligent golfer can make a statement about her game and have folks quickly indicate she’s likely incorrect in her assessment simply based on the average of the population or on their observations of others.

Many people misunderstand statistics, I know I'm no expert.  But statistics are taken from a broad population of golfers, and can identify trends.  In general, better players (lower handicaps) hit the ball further than less accomplished players.  I'm a 4 handicap right now, and I do hit the ball further than most 12 handicaps I know.  But not all.  There are exceptions to every generalization, we're all different.  

But statistical trends hold true for a big percentage of players.  When a 15 tells me he hits it over 300 yards, I'm more skeptical than if a 5 tells me the same thing.  They might both be correct, but the 15 is MUCH further from the norm than the 5 is.  The problem, as I see it, is that we initially tend to lump individuals into statistical categories.  When we learn more about the individual, we often learn about the ways that they differ from the statistical norm.

Edited by DaveP043

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18 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

When we learn more about the individual, we often learn about the ways that they differ from the statistical norm.

Bingo.  Data collection tends to create a bell curve and one can fall anywhere on there.  You can be spot on average, somewhat different, or a flat out anomaly.  The problem is when someone thinks "that doesn't describe me, so it's obviously wrong."

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21 minutes ago, Foot Wedge said:

Bingo.  Data collection tends to create a bell curve and one can fall anywhere on there.  You can be spot on average, somewhat different, or a flat out anomaly.  The problem is when someone thinks "that doesn't describe me, so it's obviously wrong."

This just reminded me of a post in another thread, where @mvmac posted a chart of PGA Tour prize money v. driving distance.  There's a definite trend, but there's also a TON of scatter.

 

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