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Kevlar10

Length is Not Directly Proportional to Handicap

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I look at it this way, length off the tee is a limiting factor as is other parts of the game. If you bomb it off the tee and routinely 3 putt, you will make a lot of bogeys. If you routinely hit chunky chips, that becomes a limiting factor. If you can't drive the ball close to 300, you not likely be able to reach a par 5 in 2 which limits your ability to make easy birdies or an occasional eagle. Last night I hit a great drive (246) followed by a decent 3 wood (195), but I was still 65 yards short of the flag. It took me three to get in from there. Add another 30 yards to my drive and 20 to my 3w, and I have a short pitch and putt with a much better chance to make birdie.

 

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5 hours ago, Kevlar10 said:

My post is about comments that one must be exaggerating how far they hit it if they are a higher handicap. I’m not accurate, that is my struggle.  But when someone says You can’t possibly hit a long distance consistently, and still be a 10-20 handicap, it’s not always true.

absolutely, thus my comment.  I wouldn't waste energy to worry about what other people say or imply.  The upside of what's hidden in those comments for you, personally, is that there's a great opportunity if you want to score lower.  Improve your accuracy.  Then your length will make that improvement pay off double vs a shorter hitter with the same issues.

35 minutes ago, Piz said:

There is hitting it long and hitting it too long.  Blowing through the corner, on a dog-leg, or flying the green isn't long...it's wrong.  I think that's why Superman doesn't play golf.  He can hit it a mile...with a chipper.

OK.....so of the 7 guys that claim to do that here, one is Superman, clearly the others are imposters.

Edited by rehmwa

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18 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

I look at it this way, length off the tee is a limiting factor as is other parts of the game. If you bomb it off the tee and routinely 3 putt, you will make a lot of bogeys. If you routinely hit chunky chips, that becomes a limiting factor. If you can't drive the ball close to 300, you not likely be able to reach a par 5 in 2 which limits your ability to make easy birdies or an occasional eagle. Last night I hit a great drive (246) followed by a decent 3 wood (195), but I was still 65 yards short of the flag. It took me three to get in from there. Add another 30 yards to my drive and 20 to my 3w, and I have a short pitch and putt with a much better chance to make birdie.

 

Or you could just learn to hit a chippy little wedge, you goober!  :-P

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I'm sorry but anybody that says average driving distance doesn't increase as handicap decreases doesn't understand statistics. Every individual is a data point and while there are low handicap golfers who don't necessarily hit the ball far and high handicap golfers who do, the vast majority of golfers fall around a trend line that demonstrates this relationship.

There is data out there that shows this. To suggest otherwise would be absurd. It would be like saying the average American male can't be 5'9 because I'm 6'7.

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Just from my own observations, there do seem to be a certain number of long-hitters that are extremely wild, and thus, high-handicaps. But, as several including @billchao point out, it's not many from a statistical standpoint where you are considering the entire population.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, billchao said:

I'm sorry but anybody that says average driving distance doesn't increase as handicap decreases doesn't understand statistics. Every individual is a data point and while there are low handicap golfers who don't necessarily hit the ball far and high handicap golfers who do, the vast majority of golfers fall around a trend line that demonstrates this relationship.

There is data out there that shows this. To suggest otherwise would be absurd. It would be like saying the average American male can't be 5'9 because I'm 6'7.

Facts don’t care about feelings. Some people will never understand that. They think they are being virtuous in holding their stance when they (unknowingly or unaware) are wrong. Gary Player is one of those.

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Length is a natural ability.  You came to the game naturally possessing it.   Now do something with it.  figure out how to make it repeatable.  figure out how to make it go straight.   

you have a much easier path to a low handicap than many people here.  Stop wasting your time trying to prove that a high handicap can be long, and listen to those that suggest that long hitters should be low handicaps.  

 

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For me length is proportional to handicap. But i mean average lengh.

I play with a guy with 14 index and when he bomb it he can reach 280..290.. easily. But his average is more like 220/230. He sometime hit it so high in the air that the ball only travel 150 o hook it so bad the he only hit 200 yards. He even sometime top-it 50 yards into a pond.

He also can hit a 290 drive but 60 yards offtarget. In a 400 yards par 4 a 290 yards drive should leave you with a wedge in your hand (110 yards in), but he´s not. que regulaty have 140..150 because of how far away he is. That 290 drive really covered 250 of the hole distance.

A scratch golfer like me drives the ball 260/270 regulary with an ocassional bomb of 280/290 and some misshits of 240/250. 

Yes, approach to green, greenside and putting can shave or add strokes to your game but average length for me it´s a pretty good messure to predict the players index. 

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8 hours ago, David in FL said:

Or you could just learn to hit a chippy little wedge, you goober!  :-P

The problem is that my brain keeps forgetting what it learned, especially the 5 months my clubs are in the shed up here in Ohio. 

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For the small percentage of higher-handicappers who actually CAN hit it a long way, I'd recommend that the take OB and penalties and forced chip-outs into account when they calculate an average.  If you hit one OB, and follow up with a 300 yarder, you've averaged 100 yards per shot.  Hit one in the woods, and the second one sideways into the fairway, 150 yards per shot.  I think that would give them a more logical way of looking at their game and deciding what parts need work.

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On 6/25/2019 at 11:04 PM, Kevlar10 said:

Why is it so hard for some forum members to believe that a high handicapper can’t be a long hitter?

BTW, I'm honestly never really sure where this perception comes from. I almost never see this.

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2 hours ago, iacas said:

BTW, I'm honestly never really sure where this perception comes from. I almost never see this.

Oh, we had a great demonstration of this yesterday. My buddy's Son really wanted to get out and play, so we had a time to play 9 at a "distantly local" (if that makes any sense) course. I asked him why he wanted to drive all the way out there, and he told me that's the only place we could get out in a reasonable time. 

We followed the last league group out, and they were young and strong and hit the ball hard! We were putting on the practice green, right next to the first tee. and the sounds of their clubs impacting the ball were quite impressive! We stopped to watch, and these guys held nothing back, and some of their swings looked half decent. But, as it turned out, they really had no idea where their shots were going! 

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5 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Oh, we had a great demonstration of this yesterday. My buddy's Son really wanted to get out and play, so we had a time to play 9 at a "distantly local" (if that makes any sense) course. I asked him why he wanted to drive all the way out there, and he told me that's the only place we could get out in a reasonable time. 

We followed the last league group out, and they were young and strong and hit the ball hard! We were putting on the practice green, right next to the first tee. and the sounds of their clubs impacting the ball were quite impressive! We stopped to watch, and these guys held nothing back, and some of their swings looked half decent. But, as it turned out, they really had no idea where their shots were going! 

That's not what I was talking about. Please read what people type.

I said I almost never see statements like the one I quoted here at TST.

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On 6/26/2019 at 1:09 PM, Patch said:

I agree that length off the club face is not proportional to one's handicap. 

As for one example, I am a short hitter, but I still have a decent handicap. I straight up, out play much longer hitters alot of times. 

Another example is my Grandson. Big tall strong guy who consistently hits 300+ yard drives, and stays in, or very near the fairway a very high percentage of the time. He has absolutely no short, scoring game. 

Now if I had his long, accurate game, I would be a very low handicapper. Maybe even closer to scratch. 

I've been playing for 50+ years and my lowest hdcp was 7. I've never been really long off the tee, but my short game and putting have always helped me score. I'll be 70 in January and have knee and shoulder issues that have greatly reduced my swing speed. However, I still enjoying playing and have found that distance off the tee is not as important for senior amateurs as it is for tour players. My group plays a 6250 yard course and while I'm almost always the shortest off the tee, I usually shoot the lowest score. The key is being able to score from 80 to 100 yards from the green. While driving gets the most attention, I think putting is far and away the most important part of the game. Just look at Dustin Johnson. He bombs it 300+ on almost every hole. However, he only wins when he putts well.  That's just my take; maybe I'm wrong.

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34 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

I've been playing for 50+ years and my lowest hdcp was 7. I've never been really long off the tee, but my short game and putting have always helped me score. I'll be 70 in January and have knee and shoulder issues that have greatly reduced my swing speed. However, I still enjoying playing and have found that distance off the tee is not as important for senior amateurs as it is for tour players. My group plays a 6250 yard course and while I'm almost always the shortest off the tee, I usually shoot the lowest score. The key is being able to score from 80 to 100 yards from the green. While driving gets the most attention, I think putting is far and away the most important part of the game. Just look at Dustin Johnson. He bombs it 300+ on almost every hole. However, he only wins when he putts well.  That's just my take; maybe I'm wrong.

The stats don’t bear that out. He actually ranks pretty high in SG putting. Of course to win on tour with every people playing so well you gotta have everything going well.

However, many have won mostly due to strokes gained tee to green- check stats on BK in his dominance lately. At the PGA for example he only gained one stroke in putting for the week, while Spieth gained nearly 10. Who won? BK did on his ballstriking because it gives you more chances to make putts. A hot putter only lasts so long while striking leads to long term consistency. 

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4 hours ago, Hoganman1 said:

Just look at Dustin Johnson. He bombs it 300+ on almost every hole. However, he only wins when he putts well.

That's actually incorrect. Not to be pretentious but there's a difference between what you 'think you see or feel' and what actually happened. From 2013-2019 DJ hasn't been ranked better than 25th on strokes gained from putting. Yet in those same years for strokes gained tee to green he's never been worse than 19th. For most of those years he was top 3. So no, it's not his putting that has him standing out.

Edited by Vinsk

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OK, Maybe DJ is not a good example.  However, my point was that I think putting is more important than driving for senior amateurs. Feel free to disagree. 

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4 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

However, my point was that I think putting is more important than driving for senior amateurs. Feel free to disagree. 

I do disagree, being able to advance the ball as far as possible is the most important. 

A golfer is going to be relatively consistent putting. If they end up taking 2 shots to get the ball onto the green versus 3 or 4 shots, those add up way more quickly.

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