Tiger Fires Sean Foley

[newtogolf]

So Sobel on GC site writes "With Monday’s announcement that Woods is officially splitting with Foley to move in a different direction going forward, essentially he’s adding his name to the list of those who have labeled the coach a scapegoat during their time working together."

I don't get why moving on to another coach is automatically assumed as criticism of the coach.  I did not see this anywhere in Tiger's statement.

a couple players seem to be taking it that way, so do some writers

switching around might just be for a change, or might be totally unrelated

i don't like how the channel and some people blow up or read so much into things

can anyone reference me to any Tiger comments where he explicitly hacks on Foley?

Exactly, other pro's switch coaches all the time but when Tiger does it, it is inferred that Tiger holds the coach responsible for his poor performance and the coach is labeled a scapegoat.  The media just needs to create drama and including Tiger in the story generates more hits than other pro's.

[phan52]

And you're missing mine. Designating someone as a mechanic or an artist is totally useless because it means nothing. Literally nothing. One mans artist is another mans mechanic. Once again, Ben Hogan is the consummate mechanic. Once again, Sam Snead is the consummate artist. Both styles are successful.

Unbelievable imagination? What the hell does that even mean? You're telling me other players can't imagine the same shots that he hit? Come on. That six iron over water out of a fairway bunker was awesome, yeah, but its not hard to see that shot and think "hm, it would be really good if I could get it on the green from here." The difference is not Tiger's imagination, but his skill level; you could plunk that ball down in front of Steven Bowditch and he would more than likely fail (relatively speaking; he is still a Tour player) because of his skill level.

Tiger has literally always been about fitness. He has literally always been about changing his swing. After he won the Masters in '97, he didn't win again until '99 because he spent that whole year changing his swing. You'll remember that he was working with Butch Harmon at the time, a consummate "artist" or "feel" teacher.

Tiger won eight time the past two years. He held the #1 ranking. Lets not pretend his perceived lack of success is anything more than golf media being a total bag of human excrement. They have nothing to talk about so they make shit up. They bring in people like Chamblee and Tripp Isenhour to spew their inane and repeatedly debunked theories about the golf swing, and its just a total waste of time.

Making my point yet again. And if you don't think that what Tiger can do at times does not include imagination, I don't know what else to say. Steven Bowditch wouldn't attempt to hit the shots Tiger has hit because he can't imagine himself doing it. Tiger has been imagining himself hitting the requisite shot since he was a kid.

[3putter]

Making my point yet again. And if you don't think that what Tiger can do at times does not include imagination, I don't know what else to say. Steven Bowditch wouldn't attempt to hit the shots Tiger has hit because he can't imagine himself doing it. Tiger has been imagining himself hitting the requisite shot since he was a kid.

I'm guessing you meant to say either "And if you think" or "Does include". Either way, I think your post is vastly underestimating the importance of skills. Heck, I can imagine the shots Bubba hit, but I wouldn't even know where to begin if I tried them. Skills, as pointed earlier, is the deciding factor here. IMO.

[mvmac]

Tiger has literally always been about fitness. He has literally always been about changing his swing. After he won the Masters in '97, he didn't win again until '99 because he spent that whole year changing his swing. You'll remember that he was working with Butch Harmon at the time, a consummate "artist" or "feel" teacher.

While he may be perceived as that, he got "technical" with Tiger, they grinded on making the picture change and getting into different positions. Harmon has done the same thing with Rickie Fowler, there are noticeable changes to the swing and Harmon wants him to "hit" certain positions.

As we know every player is a feel player and every coach could be described as a feel coach. They have to come up with some feel to achieve the desired position. Tiger has used different feels to noticeably change his swing under each instructor.

[jbishop15]

While he may be perceived as that, he got "technical" with Tiger, they grinded on making the picture change and getting into different positions. Harmon has done the same thing with Rickie Fowler, there are noticeable changes to the swing and Harmon wants him to "hit" certain positions. As we know every player is a feel player and every coach could be described as a feel coach. They have to come up with some feel to achieve the desired position. Tiger has used different feels to noticeably change his swing under each instructor.

Totally agree. That's what I was getting at; these labels are useless, and they only cause confusion and misunderstanding.

[rehmwa]

Amen!!  I swear I throw up a little in my mouth every time an announcer says that somebody has imagination around the greens, or something to that effect.  You mean that he considered a few options before ultimately deciding on the one that he felt would get his ball closest to the hole?!?!?  Well, shit, what a freakin genius!

Also, while I'm here ... I can't stand when the announcers say "unbelievable" everytime somebody hits a good shot in a pressure situation.  Why is it so unbelievable?  For one, these guys are the best.  Second, you just saw it happen.  Lastly, you probably saw something similar last week or last month or last year.  Ugh!!

SCORE!!!

why do self professed "feel" players (whatever that means) claim that mechanical players (whatever that means) have no imagination - I suspect it's just to make themselves "feel" good about themselves.

I think everybody can visualize a lot of shots and figure out how to pull them off.  Regardless of the subjective label they want to put on themselves and, even worse, others.

Everyone is a feel player, everyone has to learn the mechanics, everyone is subject to the physics of the game.  "Imagination" is not the sole realm of one or the other.  You need to be able to process all three aspects (feel, physical act, reality) to progress in learning and execution.

If anyone likes, I'd be happy to throw out a couple false strawman stereotypes I've read about feel and/or mech players.....

[Grndslmhttr3]

[SPOILER=This is OT so I'll hide it in ackowledgement] Also, while I'm here ... I can't stand when the announcers say "unbelievable" everytime somebody hits a good shot in a pressure situation. [/SPOILER]

You can make a good drinking game out of something like this - watch golf or soccer and drink every time the announcer says the word "brilliant"

[JetFan1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

This is OT so I'll hide it in ackowledgement (Click to show)

Haha, this is the worst "unbelievable" in the history of unbelievables IMO.

Off-topic, sorry:

Groaaaaaannnnn....

[Lihu]

You can make a good drinking game out of something like this - watch golf or soccer and drink every time the announcer says the word "brilliant"

ROFL

[nevets88]

@Golfingdad , @JetFan1983

Makes it sound like ZJ is Gumby or something and can't be done or shouldn't be strived for.

[JetFan1983]

@Golfingdad , @JetFan1983

Hahaha, I actually thought about posting this too. I'll listen to it and picture Peter Kostis and Charlie Rhymer white guy dancing around the golf course.

---

And just to keep this somewhat on topic, I think I'd love to see Tiger go rogue for a few months out there without a teacher. I think it'd be fun to see how well (or badly) he would do.

[billchao]

:offtopic:

[JetFan1983]

Hehe, I edited some on-topic stuff. I highly doubt Tiger goes it alone for very long because his history strongly suggests otherwise, but it would be fun to see him try it for an extended period of time for once. We have the "early days Anselmo era," the "Butch Era," the "Haney Era," the "Foley Era," and now I want to "the Rōnin Era."

PS- And of course, there's also the Earl Woods period and the After Earl period.

[billchao]

Hehe, I edited some on-topic stuff. I highly doubt Tiger goes it alone for very long because his history strongly suggests otherwise, but it would be fun to see him try it for an extended period of time for once. We have the "early days Anselmo era," the "Butch Era," the "Haney Era," the "Foley Era," and now I want to "the Rōnin Era."  PS- And of course, there's also the Earl Woods period and the After Earl period.

It's his "Aged Athlete" era. You see it a lot in other sports. He's broken down earlier than many golfers because of all the injuries. I don't know who he will hire, but it will be interesting to see if Tiger can adjust to the limitations of his own body.

[Zeph]

It's like people forget that Tiger has been playing golf since he could walk. He was good in his early career because he'd played and practiced lots of golf.

[nevets88]

[JetFan1983]

They forgot about John Anselmo who coached Tiger from age 10 to 18. Perhaps longer (until Butch).

Oh wait, nevermind. They were only including his coaches during his pro career.

[iacas]

Nevada.

Dallas.

Orlando.

I've got it! Tiger's next coach will be from… somewhere east of Orlando! The pattern is clear!

And Brandel Chamblee is a gangsta. He's just igniting the East Coast/West Coast wars in the golf world!