Putting downhill vs uphill (2x distance of downhill length) poll

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Ernest Jones said:

I'd like to see a picture of that.

You and me both.  There's no way that's not a giant exaggeration in regards to both the drop and the slope.  (50% slope is not even safely walkable)

[Missouri Swede]

The downhill putt.  It's only half the distance to the hole.  My chances of making it are much better. Chapter 25 of LSW.

[David in FL]

As others have said, too many variables to say for sure without actually seeing it, but most likely the shorter putt.

[iacas]

The correct answer is to take the downhill putt. Proximity to the hole matters way, way more.

I don't care if it's a 4% slope. On a 10 stimp green that's still not that bad. And they don't cut the holes on 4% slopes very often. The bit about picturing "the worst slope on your course" is bogus because they don't cut the holes in the middle of tiers or super-steep slopes.

Half the distance to the hole is a huge amount. Even if it's 1.5' and 3'.

[mvmac]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Downhill. It is half the distance. My chance of making it goes up a lot.

Yep this ^^^^^

Even if it's a fast putt or has a decent amount of break, it's half the distance.

[onkey]

It depends on the situation.  If I need to make it, I'll take the downhill putt.  If I need to safely get down in two, I will probably take the uphill putt (but only if it is within 20 feet).

[boogielicious]

The interesting thing about the poll question is not the putt itself, but the mind set that will lead you to the putt. To me the scenario is really about the shot before the putt. If I'm pitching on, fear of the downhill putt will change the though process of where I want to leave my pitch (other than in the cup). If you fear the downhill putt an are pitching up the hill, you will likely leave the pitch short of the hole. With a downhill approach, you may miss long to leave the uphill putt, even if it's longer.

After reading Lowest Score Wins and reading pretty much everything @iacas and @mvmac have written on this site, I've tried to eliminate this mindset and focus on proximity to the hole. It is a hard habit to break, but achievable. Now I try and focus on the shot that will leave me closest to the hole regardless of being above, below or to the side. It makes you see the shot in a very different manner.

Even approach shots without hazards can be affected by "leave an uphill putt" strategy. Get it on the green!

[Fourputt]

3 hours ago, boogielicious said:

The interesting thing about the poll question is not the putt itself, but the mind set that will lead you to the putt. To me the scenario is really about the shot before the putt. If I'm pitching on, fear of the downhill putt will change the though process of where I want to leave my pitch (other than in the cup). If you fear the downhill putt an are pitching up the hill, you will likely leave the pitch short of the hole. With a downhill approach, you may miss long to leave the uphill putt, even if it's longer.

After reading Lowest Score Wins and reading pretty much everything @iacas and @mvmac have written on this site, I've tried to eliminate this mindset and focus on proximity to the hole. It is a hard habit to break, but achievable. Now I try and focus on the shot that will leave me closest to the hole regardless of being above, below or to the side. It makes you see the shot in a very different manner.

Even approach shots without hazards can be affected by "leave an uphill putt" strategy. Get it on the green!

I mostly go along with this approach.  The only time I won't be going for the hole on a chip or pitch without concern for the slope is if there is a real reason for not leaving the ball above the hole.  There are situations where leaving an uphill or downhill putt must be considered because of a really difficult hole location, but on a properly set up course those cases should be relatively rare.  

A hole cut too close to the edge of a tier, where accidentally leaving the ball short would risk having it roll back down to the next lower level and a considerable distance from the hole.  This is a case for favoring the high side even if it does leave a dangerous downhill putt. From experience I would trust myself to lag a slippery 4 or 5 footer down to the hole more than I would to hit a 15 or 20 foot putt up a steep slope.  With the longer putt, I'd be likely to leave that same downhill 4 footer coming back, so why not just start with it?

I guess this would still favoring reasonable proximity to the hole, but it is deliberately favoring a certain target, even if that target probably won't leave the shortest possible putt.  

Even playing with a closest to the hole mindset, you still can't ignore good judgement. 

[Patch]

I dislike all down hill putts. It matters little how steep they are. Part of that dislike is because I use a 500 gram putter. When available, I will spend a lot time practicing down hill putts. 

With up hill putts, I have better speed, and distance control. When I know I am hitting to a hilly green, I always try to stay below the pin. (course management)

I once read some where that while getting ready for a major with lighting fast greens, Tiger spent some practice time putting on a hard wood floor. I tried that once. What a nerve wracking expiriance that was. 

[saevel25]

Changed my mind. I'll take the shorter putt. 

[DrvFrShow]

On a 9 or 10 stimp and on a slight downhill slope I'd take the shorter putt. But if I'm on my home course stimped at 12-13 last summer on holes 2, 5, 8, 9, 11, 12, 15 or 18? I'll take the uphill putt. Miss on those holes, you could be in a world of hurt. In fairness the greens weren't designed to be that fast when the course was built.

Good point about practicing putting on my kitchen floor. Might give that a try.

[vangator]

23 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

You and me both.  There's no way that's not a giant exaggeration in regards to both the drop and the slope.  (50% slope is not even safely walkable)

I've used tool something like Google Earth that will not only show the normal satellite view but can also pivot to show eyelevel terrain.  Can't find it in my favorites.  Anyone know the tool I'm talking about?  I'd like to get a side picture of the green I'm talking about.

Also, years ago (30 years?) I played a hole with some buddies after work.  Whoever set the pins that day (it was a Friday) must have been drinking or wanted to have some laughs.  He )or she) put the pin on a place on the green that would not hold a putt.  I had a 4 foot putt uphill.  If I didn't make the putt, it came right back to me.  I took five putts before I finally got it in.  My friend took 10 putts to make it in from the same place. 

Funny thing is, this course is the same course I mention in my original post.  I played the hole I mentioned originally a couple of years ago in a scramble.  Our team left our approach just on the top tier a few feet from the precipice and the hole was right at the base of the slope.  We barely touched our ball to get it rolling just to the edge and it took off.  If it missed the hole, it was 15-20 feet past.  We did make the putt when the ball hit the hole on the run, popped up in the air and slam dunked.

[bkuehn1952]

I answered downhill with a mental reservation that the downhiller had to be one that a person could reasonably expect to stop near the hole if struck lightly enough.  We have all played courses where some missed downhill putts won't stop.  I would avoid a downhill putt where I have a 10% chance of making it versus a 90% chance of having a 5 foot or longer come backer. 

[dchoye]

i find it more time consuming and difficult to read putts when my ball is above the hole.  It takes 3x the time and effort as I have to go the low side behind the hole   Walk in circle rather than a straight line . Try to imagine a spot to aim at and let fate work the ball to the hole 

when I have a uphill putt I don't have to give the hole away. It's usually straight with little break. Some days I just don't have the imagination to read the putt  and I rather be below the hole all day 

[saevel25]

12 minutes ago, dchoye said:

i find it more time consuming and difficult to read putts when my ball is above the hole.  It takes 3x the time and effort as I have to go the low side behind the hole   Walk in circle rather than a straight line . Try to imagine a spot to aim at and let fate work the ball to the hole 

when I have a uphill putt I don't have to give the hole away. It's usually straight with little break. Some days I just don't have the imagination to read the putt  and I rather be below the hole all day 

You can have a straight downhill putt. Do uphill putts break less, sure. I've had uphill putts break over 2 feet before. 

If you are taking 3x as long on downhill putts you are severely overthinking it. I take the exact same time on downhill as I do on uphill. 

[Fourputt]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

You can have a straight downhill putt. Do uphill putts break less, sure. I've had uphill putts break over 2 feet before. 

If you are taking 3x as long on downhill putts you are severely overthinking it. I take the exact same time on downhill as I do on uphill. 

Yep.  Don't see any reason to take longer just because it's downhill.

[iacas]

12 hours ago, dchoye said:

when I have a uphill putt I don't have to give the hole away. It's usually straight with little break. Some days I just don't have the imagination to read the putt  and I rather be below the hole all day 

A putt from as short as 5' can be played an inch right or left of the hole from only 30° off straight (and on a stimp 10 green). An uphill putt from between 5 and 7 o'clock from 20' can break well over a foot.

[dchoye]

I take longer routine on downhill putts cause it reflects the pace I want the ball to travel.  Downhill putts take more time to get into hole than the same distance uphill putts 

why should it be exactly the same time ?