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ChetlovesMer

The Cheating Thread

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If this thread already exists, I’m sorry. Perhaps mine can be merged with it.

I wanted to create a catch all thread for people to either mention, laugh at, complain about, or vent over cheaters and cheating. Perhaps even admit to some cheating. (Hey, if you have a problem, the first step is admitting it.) 

Here’s my favorite one. There was a gentleman who played in the city league I played in for years. This guy was the cheating-est player you’ll ever see. His classic move was to mark his ball with a poker chip, he’d mark in front of the ball and then replace his ball in front of the mark. As far as I know nobody ever called him on it, but he did it every time. He cheated other ways too. Here’s the kicker; He was the pastor at a local church.

The dumbest thing about the illegal marking ball thing is everyone knows you’re doing it and you really don’t get that much advantage. I mean if you’re going to throw your reputation for honesty out the window, you should try to find a way to actually get an advantage. Can anyone tell me what the make percentage difference is between a 10' putt and a 9'10" putt?

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3 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Can anyone tell me what the make percentage difference is between a 10' putt and a 9'10" putt?

Minimal, but if the ball is sitting awkwardly in an indent or you cant really fix the pitch mark well, moving the ball an inch could make sure your ball doesn't do anything wonky.


Their was a famous guy in one of my golf leagues who was known to be absent minded about how many strokes he took on a hole. You had to keep track of his hits, penalties, etc... He'll throw out a score like, "I got a 5". Then you'd say, "I thought you had a 7, did you count the one you hit in the water?" He would go, "Oh I forgot about that!" He forgets pretty much every time.

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3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Their was a famous guy in one of my golf leagues who was known to be absent minded about how many strokes he took on a hole. You had to keep track of his hits, penalties, etc... He'll throw out a score like, "I got a 5". Then you'd say, "I thought you had a 7, did you count the one you hit in the water?" He would go, "Oh I forgot about that!" He forgets pretty much every time.

One of the guys in my club had this exchange with someone a few years ago.  I'm sure he's not the only one who has had this exchange during a golf tournament.

He says something to indicate he thinks what the previous person said for his score for a hole wasn't accurate.

"Are you questioning my integrity?"

"No, I'm questioning your math skills."

------

As I like to say, there are some people so used to shaving strokes that if they ever make an ace, they'd instinctively tell you to write down zero. 

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I used to play more regularly with a guy that would always find his ball no matter how certain everyone else was that his ball went OB or in a hazard.  He always found it, not necessarily finding it in a spot with a shot to the green but good enough.  If I ever play with him again (for money or with something on the line), I'll have him use different numbered balls when he changes balls or hits a provisional so I definitely know whether he's lying.

22 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Here’s my favorite one. There was a gentleman who played in the city league I played in for years. This guy was the cheating-est player you’ll ever see. His classic move was to mark his ball with a poker chip, he’d mark in front of the ball and then replace his ball in front of the mark.

I played against a kid in a high school match that did that. I didn't call him out, but it definitely bugged me.

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This thread's gonna get lotsa posts..😄

Cheating is as old as mankind. Golf just presents more opportunities for people to be themselves.. lol! 

The wholesale 'honor code' is not 100% effective even for 'generally' honest people who don't cheat on taxes let alone those who do. 

 

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My first year playing in any kind of competition we had a big blow up at the end of the club championship.

One of my fellow C flighters apparently dropped one after hitting OB instead of going back to the tee. Not sure it was so much cheating as much as him just not knowing the rules, but he caused a massive stink after the brass talked to him about it. Not even sure what they did, but I don't believe I've seen that guy since.

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2 years ago I played a round with my old man where my par putt lipped out on the par 4 first hole.  I tapped in and he asked me "are you counting that?"  I said, kind of dumbfounded, "well I had to hit the ball again, right?  So that's a 5."  You know, like a normal person who knows kindergarten math.  He chuckles and shakes his head before saying, "I know a couple guys who would count the lip-out as 'close enough' and put themselves down for a 4."

Wow......

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1 minute ago, Foot Wedge said:

He chuckles and shakes his head before saying, "I know a couple guys who would count the lip-out as 'close enough' and put themselves down for a 4."

Close enough only counts for horse shoes and hand grenades. 

I have another cheating story, but I heard it second hand.  As some know, I took up golf in graduate school, so I didn't play high school golf.  However, on occasion I run into someone my age who did play high school golf in my district, and when they find out where I went to high school, they ask (in a tone of voice that implies "please say no") if I played for my high school's team.  

It turns out the coach from my high school's golf team had a reputation as a cheat, encouraging students to have a hole in a pocket they could drop a ball through if needed.  Again, second hand, but knowing that teacher, I wouldn't be surprised. 

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3 minutes ago, Foot Wedge said:

2 years ago I played a round with my old man where my par putt lipped out on the par 4 first hole.  I tapped in and he asked me "are you counting that?"  I said, kind of dumbfounded, "well I had to hit the ball again, right?  So that's a 5."  You know, like a normal person who knows kindergarten math.  He chuckles and shakes his head before saying, "I know a couple guys who would count the lip-out as 'close enough' and put themselves down for a 4."

Wow......

Wow, is right.

What is up with that?

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Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage over an opponent. I think most players cheat themselves vs somebody else. The Hollywood handicaps catch up to you in those events where you have to hole out every shot. We play a lot of team events, two best ball etc, and have a lot of guys who will pick up at double if their score is irrelevant to the team score, or take the 2 foot gimmie for par if we have 2 pars in. I love playing them in individual events because now they have to make it. A lot of 12's can't break 90 if they have to hole everything. 

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Fortunately I have never encountered an example of blatant cheating in the handful of competitive tournaments I've played in. The closest I've ever come was in our club championship a few years back, and even then, I'm not 100% convinced it was an act of cheating. 

It occurred during the second round of our 3-round championship. My marker and I were among the leaders after day 1 and were playing in the last group. Unfortunately, the day was not going well for either of us, and we both carded relatively poor scores on the front 9.

On 10, our bad play continued as we both made double bogey 7's on the par 5 hole. As were are walking off the green, my marker came up to me and said "we both got a 6 there, right?" Something about the tone of his question struck me as odd - like he was little too eager to ask the question. I just responded that I was pretty sure we had both taken a 7, but that he should go back over his strokes to confirm. He took a second, agreed to a 7 and nothing came of it again. And in fairness to him, there is a slight chance he really thought we had both bogeyed. But if I had to place a bet, my guess is that he was trying to shave a stroke.

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I have seen cheating over the years while golfing. I have even seen it during a pga tournament a few times. It happens. The most common was doing the foot wedge thing, or the ball moved position during their address. 

I have always looked at cheaters, that at the end of the day, they knew they cheated, and some folks knew they were cheaters. The fact that cheating didn't bother them, was their problem. A problem which would eventually catch up to them later on in life.. 

I have seen folks, pick up their ball, an ultra short tap in, but still count the pick up as a stroke. Cheating? Yeah, it is, plus they probably wrote down the wrong score, since they didn't hole out for a score on that hole.

Now, when our crazy, old guys group get together for a round of 18 holes, I know that myself, and others will knowingly skirt the rules in the name of "gamesmanship". We basically just screw with each other, in a fun way, just because we are out there having a good time, at our own expense. 

I can't tell you how many times my marker some how moved from a 3' foot putt, to a 6' footer. That, or a ball accidently, intentionally became lost under the tire of a golf cart. Playing it as it lies when found. 

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12 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Here’s my favorite one. There was a gentleman who played in the city league I played in for years. This guy was the cheating-est player you’ll ever see. His classic move was to mark his ball with a poker chip, he’d mark in front of the ball and then replace his ball in front of the mark. As far as I know nobody ever called him on it, but he did it every time. He cheated other ways too. Here’s the kicker; He was the pastor at a local church.

The girl who beat my kid by one at a recent tournament marked her ball to the side, and would replace it in front, and she did this a few times. I don't understand how even your integrity is worth a 3% advantage on a 33" putt… but I've seen enough people do it ALL the time that it's clearly worth it to them.

The other much more worse thing was that, on the 14th hole, she hit her ball into the woods left of the fairway. I saw it go in with @saevel25 and we went to look for it. We found one ball, another guy found another ball. The second ball was her ball, and the dad came over and was pushing down all the leaves and sticks "near" (clearly improving the LIE of the ball) saying "can we identify her ball?" NO, you can't, you jerk, and that's not how you identify a ball - you don't improve the lie so you can see the "sides" of the ball - you mark, lift, and identify.

Her ball came out WAY too cleanly for the lie she originally had. 😛

This same dad would also often walk across a fairway and stop at a point and fold his arms across his chest so his daughter would laser him to know where to hit it and what the distance was. This is a violation of the "advice" rule(s).

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12 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Can anyone tell me what the make percentage difference is between a 10' putt and a 9'10" putt?

Ask Lexi. 😉

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36 minutes ago, iacas said:

The girl who beat my kid by one at a recent tournament marked her ball to the side, and would replace it in front, and she did this a few times. I don't understand how even your integrity is worth a 3% advantage on a 33" putt… but I've seen enough people do it ALL the time that it's clearly worth it to them.

Yea, it was obvious on the 9th hole because it just stood out from the angle we were standing at. It just doesn't look normal to see someone mark the ball to the side. That is what caused me to notice it. Then I noticed she went through her normal routine, disregarding that she marked the ball on the side.  

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

The other much more worse thing was that, on the 14th hole, she hit her ball into the woods left of the fairway. I saw it go in with @saevel25 and we went to look for it. We found one ball, another guy found another ball. The second ball was her ball, and the dad came over and was pushing down all the leaves and sticks "near" (clearly improving the LIE of the ball) saying "can we identify her ball?" NO, you can't, you jerk, and that's not how you identify a ball - you don't improve the lie so you can see the "sides" of the ball - you mark, lift, and identify.

This was absurd. 

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

This same dad would also often walk across a fairway and stop at a point and fold his arms across his chest so his daughter would laser him to know where to hit it and what the distance was. This is a violation of the "advice" rule(s).

He was clearing violating the recommendations (not sure it's a rule), that the non-golfers needed to stay on the cart path. I understand stepping off the cart path a bit, but traversing on the other side of the fairway (clearly away from the other parents... sketchy...) really stood out.

He always seem to stop near were the balls were landing at, or near bunkers. 

 

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There are a few lads like this at my club 😂

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My brother and I caught a guy who always seemed to find a probably lost ball.  Turns out this one time his ball really was not lost, and we presented him with it after he had hit the phony one.

 

BTW, I read that our president is pretty absurd.  The caddies at all of his courses are complicit too.  He just expects it of them, and they comply in hopes of a good tip.  He gives himself gimme chip-ins (seriously), improves his lie, etc.

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Here in Argentina fathers are not allowed to follow their kids in the course on official tournaments. Why? Because one day one father beat up his daughter after a few bad holes... crazy people are everywhere. 

In 1999 I was competing stroke play against another 2 players. It was the final stage after winning the local and regional tournaments. Because i was under 18 and i was playing far away from home i had a tutor to travel with me. He was a club pro that i never seen before. Leading by a couple of strokes in the last holes i hooked a tee shot into the left trees. Almost OB. He founded my ball and suggested me (i didn´t ask, didn´t need to) that i should not go for the green, just punch it out to the fairway. I let him know that a didn´t want his advice and that it maybe also inappropriate or illegal (because he could be considered part of my team). 
I punched out because it was the right play to do and ended winning the tournament and the Cup by 3 strokes.

One father of the other boys complained to the committee that I had to be disqualified because I should be penalized with 2 strokes because of my tutor illegal advice. I literally wanted to kill my tutor... 

The committee decided that the 2 stroke penalty was legit but didn´t disqualify me, they just added it to my score and won by one. The father and the boy where outraged but it was the final decision.

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