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Two Strokes for OB Instead of Stroke/Distance

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OB Question  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. (In tournament play) if an alternative for stroke and distance allowed you to play from a spot near where my original ball was lost or went OB for two (2) penalty strokes, I would be…

    • Very likely to use it.
      13
    • Somewhat likely to use it.
      22
    • Unlikely to use it.
      20
    • Very unlikely to use it.
      10


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I voted very unlikely to use it.

My logic is the same as Erik's. I'm more likely to make a bogey or double with re-teeing and hitting 3 than dropping near where I hit it out. It's a good idea for pace of play. But practically it's not.

It also would break the progression of strokes. 

The one thing that is stupid on some courses is in-course out-of-bounds. But that's :offtopic:.

 

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Not a chance at my CC. All OBs are marked where the ball has already travelled through trees to the road, i.e. I wouldn't have a even a chance of advancing into the fairway unless I get super lucky to miss tree roots and low hanging branches and then I would still be a crappy distance out 99% of time.

I am better off re-teeing. Wayyyy better..

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Voted unlikely.  I could see using it if I had one of those really flukey lost balls where I could basically see where it ended up in the rough and then just couldn't locate it in the grass or leaves.  (Although, I strongly agree with @Fourputt that this rule would make no sense).

For OB, I would only use it to avoid going back to the tee and slowing everything down.  Which means I would have had to have been careless enough to not hit a provisional.

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I would opt to use it ONLY if I couldn't find a ball that I thought was find-able or is OB when I didn't think it was to save a walk back to the tee. Chances are, the hole will end up an ESC hole by doing this. I am pretty good about hitting a provisional if there is a question as to whether it went OB or headed towards some junk where it might not be find-able.

We adopted this rule back in the golf league for those people who refused to hit a provisional balls. In essence, we said it was OK to drop, but it would cost 2 strokes to do so.

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Out of bounds is usually marked in a location where I don't want to go for a number of reasons. It's off the beaten path, the angles are probably not good, and a good portion of the time it's bordered by some jungle (with either tall grasses or trees) on the inbounds side. 

If I dropped in a trashy location like that, it means I think that the best I could do on a re-played shot would be to hit it in that trash anyways. The odds of that scenario happening for me are pretty low, so I'd take stroke and distance in most cases over a two stroke drop.

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1 hour ago, CarlSpackler said:

I would opt to use it ONLY if I couldn't find a ball that I thought was find-able or is OB when I didn't think it was to save a walk back to the tee. Chances are, the hole will end up an ESC hole by doing this. I am pretty good about hitting a provisional if there is a question as to whether it went OB or headed towards some junk where it might not be find-able.

We adopted this rule back in the golf league for those people who refused to hit a provisional balls. In essence, we said it was OK to drop, but it would cost 2 strokes to do so.

ESC is only for handicapping purposes and shouldn't be applied to your actual score for the round, your score is your score before ESC.  So even if the hole ends up ESC, that wouldn't affect your answer to the survey.  We should assume otherwise USGA rules to answer the survey question, no max score applied.

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To me a 2 stroke penalty sounds fair, as it would save some time. Just walk up, can't find your ball, drop another ball, and play on. Add the two strokes after you are done putting. I wouldn't doubt some folks are already doing this now. 

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2 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

ESC is only for handicapping purposes and shouldn't be applied to your actual score for the round, your score is your score before ESC.  So even if the hole ends up ESC, that wouldn't affect your answer to the survey.  We should assume otherwise USGA rules to answer the survey question, no max score applied.

I know. The only reason I keep score is to post for HC purposes, and not many of those anymore since I play solo frequently. 

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I voted "somewhat", but it would depend on the situation. Let's say I discover that my drive is just barely out of bounds, maybe a foot or so. The place where I can drop still leaves me in absolute jail, with no chance of advancing the ball toward the green. Why on earth would I take the drop and 2 stroke penalty? I'd already be hitting 4!

It seems to me the better option is to go back and re-tee, hitting my 3rd shot with at least the opportunity of hitting my 4th from the short grass.

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If that was an option, it would depend on where the ball went OB.

If it was far down the fairway, then yes.  If it was a duck hook and went OB after 20-50 yds from the tee box, no.

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15 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Thanks - I hadn't seen that before.

Anyone who argues that OB (or a lost ball) should have some other solution than "stroke-and-distance" should be required to read that and state specifically which points they disagree with.

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8 hours ago, Hardspoon said:

Thanks - I hadn't seen that before.

Anyone who argues that OB (or a lost ball) should have some other solution than "stroke-and-distance" should be required to read that and state specifically which points they disagree with.

I can appreciate both your sentiments and those of the ruling bodies of golf. However, one of the jobs of the USGA and R&A are to think about the rules in minute detail! 

I did notice that they mentioned golfers out for a casual round ignoring the "distance" part of the rule. What is the meaning of the word casual?

I have played courses where the local rules instruct you to ignore the distance part of the penalty for OB, and take the stroke penalty only in order to keep play moving! And we don't have the advantage of marshals and spotters and television and the like.

Now, in sanctioned events, or even local scrambles where prize money is offered, I can see maintaining a strict adherence to the rules. But a casual round among friends? Come on!

It makes me wonder the last time one of these bourgeoisie played a local muni! They'd soon discover that 90 to 95% of amateur golfers don't give a Tinker's damn for the rules!

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44 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

What is the meaning of the word casual?

I think they just mean "not a tournament".

44 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I have played courses where the local rules instruct you to ignore the distance part of the penalty for OB, and take the stroke penalty only in order to keep play moving!

I think this was a big reason for the redefinition of "penalty areas".  While the local rule you describe isn't in accordance with the Rules of Golf, courses will now have the option to paint those areas red instead of having them as OB, achieving the same effect.

44 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

It makes me wonder the last time one of these bourgeoisie played a local muni!

Their job (for now...) is to create rules that apply equally to Jordan Spieth in the US Open and to you playing a round in November, by yourself, with leaves covering the ground.

I think the move towards "penalty areas" was a great recognition of that, creating consistent rules that could be "adjusted" by marking courses differently on a muni versus a PGA course.

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You have a point, Hardspoon. At least they're trying.

And it occurred to me the other day that if anyone actually read through the rule book for any sport. football, basketball, baseball or whatever, it would probably read like a bunch of legalspeak!

I don't know about anyone else here, but the only rule book I have ever perused is the USGA's Rules of Golf!

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When I'm playing casually, sometimes I'll give myself a 2 stroke penalty and hit my 4th from the fairway.  Hitting a provisional is technically right but it slows things down, most people just don't do it, and the next ball might wind up OB as well.  Instead, they drop near where it went OB and give themselves a 1 stroke penalty, like you would after hitting into a lateral hazard.  Taking a 2 stroke penalty and hitting the 4th from the fairway doesn't slow anything down and is a little more penalizing than dropping near where it went OB, as many do.

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Actually, it does not slow things down to hit a provisional. It takes less than 30s compared to all the arguing about what to do, where to drop, etc when the ball that sailed OB isn't found.  And the fact that the provisional might end up OB is actually the part of stroke and distance rule that really complies with the principle of golf that you only advance the ball via a stroke, so if you can't execute the stroke (and pump another one OB), you pay the piper. After 2 OBs, though, take your medicine and write the ESC score on your scorecard, and continue hitting or DQ yourself in a tournament.

Also, dropping in the fairway is less penalizing than dropping near the OB because there are no trees, no hills, no blind anything and the path to the hole is much easier, even if you lose a few yards in the process.

Interestingly, the USGA and R&A looked at that option (dropping in the fairway, and also dropping in the nearby rough) when doing their work on revamping the rules and they rejected it.

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Note: This thread is 849 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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